Hi all,Well... I have some ideas about how, if totally on my own and without a GPS (but with VORs available) I'd plan this short night route:N14 > 39NHowever... I don't have much experience yet - so my assumptions may be wrong. In the daytime it's easy to use ground references... at night, probably not so much. I haven't done this route at night... so I don't know!How would YOU do it?'Disclaimer: Yeah, I know. I will not take any of your input as recommendations or advice of any kind :) I promise. Oh... right... this question is hypothetical anyway. thxAndrew

I would use a GPS :( But then again without it and VFR I would use sectional charts and city lights. At a decent altitude its easy to compare the shapes of cities' lights with the sectional (yellow areas). Of course that's a moot point if flying over a wilderness with little to no city lighting (a real problem in eastern North Carolina). That pilotage in conjunction with simple VOR radial checking and maybe a little dead reckoning will help you to your destination and back.As I'm no fan of strictly using VOR(s), especially without DME--and the fact I have to be at work and don't have time to explain-- I'll let someone like Chock do it. :(

Hi Zach, thanks for the note.Well... to start, yeah, no GPS, in the Warrior, at least. But moreso - I understand VOR nav, using charts, etc. though I'd only be at about 2500 feet.I was really getting at, on this particular chart, is the short flight over terrain that's unfamiliar at night... going this way in the day time is simple as the landmarks are really prominent. I don't know what to expect at night yet, except for a few towers. Would likely flight follow McGuire > Trenton Mercer. (I wish FSX had flight following)I suppose if clear enough, the roads directly north of N14 can serve as a "corridor" to guide me up to Robbinsville, where I would pick up the Solberg VOR... maybe then do about the same thing in reverse on the way back. Theoretically, of course.It's a short flight, but a lot going on in the 15 minutes or so it takes to get up there.http://skyvector.com/?ll=40.13935034163965...K6.N14:A.K6.39N

On a night flight in clear weather, you can simply follow roads or some such, although if you do, make sure you fly on the right hand side of them, as that is the rule for doing such things; that's just in case someone is doing the same thing coming the other way. It also means the road will be easily visible from the left seat.You can fly direct to a VOR and go off from that toward your destination on a bearing, or cross reference intersecting radials from two VORS to fly to navigational waypoints of your own design that you have chinagraphed on a chart. Write down frequencies and bearings, plus estimated times of legs too, which will all help. If you do that, it also helps to do a little sketch of what you'll expect to see on the gauges when you are in the right spot if you are not familiar with VOR navigation. Also make a note of high ground and high obstructions. Theoretically all obstructions that are a hazard should have lights on them, but if the cloud lowers, that won't help you.You could even navigate by the stars if you know where they will be and you have a clear night, and if you are really a glutton for punishment, you can get a freeware bubble sextant that works in FS9 although you will also need an almanac that tells you the ascension of celestial bodies for a particular day. An E6B is useful for calculating drift, but they can be a pain in the &@($* sometimes, so you might want to use an electronic modern one. There are a few free ones kicking around on the net, or if you want one that can link to FS data, Aerosoft sells one that is pretty good and I think it is about 15 quid. It is called 'Flight Calculator' if you want to check it out.Last but not least, there is of course GPS, which is the no brainer solution, although you should never set off on a flight and simply use that alone, besides which, it kind of removes the challenge. So if you use GPS, have a back up plan, even if it is just a rough one.If you use ded reckoning, you should be aware of 'aiming off', which is the technique of deliberately aiming off from your desired arrival point by about ten degrees and looking for a more obvious unmistakable feature after timing the leg. When you see that, you will know which way to turn if you have deliberately aimed off to one side of your ideal track, which is not the case if you aim directly for it, as you won't know which side of your ideal track line you are. This is especially useful when flying over relatively featureless terrain, for example, if you tried to fly across the English Channel direct to where you wanted to go, when you hit the coast, it all looks pretty much the same, so you wouldn't know which way to turn, but if you deliberately go very wide one way or the other, you will then know exactly which way to turn and fly up the coast to find a recognisable river inlet or some such.Take more fuel than you need for the trip too, an emergency landing on top of trees at night is not going to end well.Al

How would I do it ? ...Well.. I probably wouldn't do it. I wouldn't want to intentionally embark on a 28nm, low-altitude, night flight through complex airspace (I'd drive.. :( )That aside.. unless the winds are pretty stiff.. dead-reckoning for 28nm is pretty fool-proof.. and under perfect VFR conditions (20+nm visibility) (I wouldn't fly at 2500msl through that area at night with less than perfect visibility).. you should be able to catch sight of the beacon, or at least make out the city lights, by the time you level off and are established on course.I looked at the sectional... at 2500msl you'll have to keep track of two 'D' airspaces, and overfly a pretty good-sized airport too.So ... If I had to get from N14 ot 39N, and couldn't wait til sunrise.. I'd probably fly straight toward the TTN Delta airspace.. get permission to transition, and even though I'd be able to see 39N by then.. I'd ask for a vector when reporting the airspace exit.

I've done this route many time in real life during both night and day at low altitude.Fly north until you pick up the Jersey turnpike and then you can follow this to 495 and Rt 206 which leads right to Princeton. The city of Trenton to you left and the town of Princeton south of the airport make good visual checkpoints. You might want to contact Trenton tower just to be safe because you will be skirting the east side of their airspace. Be aware that Princeton can be tricky to pick out coming from the south at night because it's tucked against a small ridgeline. (not sure if this is true in fsx) If you get lost just tune in Solberg and use the 171 radial to guide you right over it. (Thats the radial the VOR-A approach uses at 39N).Make sure to use the PAPI if landing 28 because their is a ridge line with a tower that can give you a problem if you get low.

Hey all - Ok, I went last night - decent weather - here's the rundown:(For the record.. I wanted to go VOR, my instructor recommended pilotage... for good reason I guess...)Headed north to turnpike, followed turnpike to Robbinsville. From there, we're pretty far aside of Trenton's airspace, and could also see Trenton pretty well. Heavy traffic was 2-3 thousand over us so not a factor.Headed north from there using landmarks... and flew a bit.. and a bit more... and a bit more... he asked me how far I thought we were - I knew we were 4 miles south but didn't see it.... and a bit more... saw a beacon that turned out to be Central Jersey, 47N (probably) - my instructor cross-checked us against Solberg... and as it turns out, I flew EXACTLY OVER THE AIRFIELD. The problem? THE BEACON WASN'T ON. Come on!Anyway... I thought I wasn't seeing the beacon because of the ridge (yeah, it's kinda there is FSX) but as it turns out it was just not operational. The landing was fine.Strangely enough, a few nights ago we tried to go to Hammonton, but the PLC didn't work. Arg.Heading south, I was pretty sure I knew where I was, but my instructor had me make a few slight course changes to the left, and before I knew it we were quite a bit south of where we should have been. Ouch... I found our airport pretty quickly as I could make out the beacon, but would have liked to navigated it perfectly. I guess with only a few hours at night I shouldn't expect too much.So... 1st approach was too high & we went around; 2nd approach was good, full stop, then one more time around, and my "required" night training incl. landings is now complete.I put required in quotes because I think the purpose of having students train at night is to show them why you shouldn't fly at night ;) Things can get f-ed up pretty quickly... Oh, and I found out you can just get up to 3000 and hop right over Trenton anyway. Not sure I would without calling in, but you could.That said, I want to do it again. When the beacon is back up. Fun Stuff.

Flying at night is different and while you may know an area really well in the daytime, it does take some doing to know where you are at at night due to things looking completely different. It's not that you shouldn't fly at night, it's just that you need to be more aware of where you are at both vertically and horizontally, especially if there is no moon and no city lights to go by. This is where instrument training comes in very handy. I always loved night hops when I was a crew chief, especially flying GCA's into Los Alamitos. The pattern takes you over Disneyland and during the summer, you get to see the fireworks show from overhead. Pretty cool. Now flying GCA's at night into El Toro would take one out almost to San Clemente Island. Ya hoped you never developed any problems as the water is cold and there are sharks present.

Flying at night is different and while you may know an area really well in the daytime, it does take some doing to know where you are at at night due to things looking completely different.

Yeah, I know how that goes. I remember the first time, I had to drive around Newark at night. Conversation between my sister and me went something like this:Me: "I have no idea where I'm going."Her: "You come here all the time."Me: "Yeah, but not at night."The fact that we had a heavy thunderstorm that night didn't make things any better.

Well, a good lesson learned for the money...39N PRINCETON!MIV 07/158 39N OBST TOWER 605 (373 AGL) 3.38 E LGTS OTS (ASR 1054848) TIL 1008110651!MIV 01/017 39N AD ABN OTS!MIV 06/070 39N SVC ASOS OTS