Ok, Now there has been a recent thread about freeware developers and compilation CD's and such.My opinions on the subject are noted, and really this is not a thread for this.However, I make the following suggestion for AVSIM, and would like to see if the software developers here would chime in for there opinion.WHEREAS: Not everyone can afford, or has access to high speed internet access.WHEREAS: Due to the astounding number files makes finding quality freeware harder and harder to find.WHEREAS: Quality freeware products deserve recognition for their efforts and special distinctionI propose the following.That AVSIM publish and sell within their store, a compilation CD of Bear Cartrights "award" winning freeware or similar freeware as a "best of" type collection. Collections would include the actual file, a copy of the review, and proper recognition to the freeware authors.That AVSIM charge a reasonable amount for the CD to cover shipping, handling, and a small profit to allow for the continued operation and access to AVSIM's Forums and file libraries.That as a condition of uploading, freeware developers grant AVSIM permission to distribute said freeware electronically and, if chosen, via the "best of" CD, should the freeware be awarded the honor.That AVSIM maintain the artistic and complete integrity of the uploaded file by agreeing not to reverse engineer, modify or otherwise edit the content of the file in question, with out expressed written permission from the freeware developer.That resale, recompilation, or redistribution of the CD for profit, be forbidden without expressed written consent of AVSIM and all the featured freeware devlopers on the CDI honestly believe that this would be a really nice way for those who are bandwidth challenged to be able to enjoy some of the best freeware available. It would also provide a nice way for us to be able to purchase some files that we may be otherwise discouraged from downloading either due to length of download.Again, this is not a flame, or meant to be inflamatory. I simply am asking if a majority of freeware developers out there would agree to give AVSIM such right, and whether a majority of "users" out there would purchase said CD if it were reasonable enough.Your thoughts.(The opinions expressed here are the opinions of me, and me alone, and are not the opinions of AVSIM or any AVSIM employee, of which I am NOT)

Seems to me this issue has been beaten to death for many years now. AVSIM is no different than any of the many individuals who have wanted or tried to do the same thing - a simple non-profit distribution to aid the bandwidth-challenged simmer. And these individuals have been prevented from doing so in an often rather heated manner. Why should the tune change just because a corporation would be involved? Doug

First: AVSIM is a respected name in the flight sim community. AVSIM has consistently shown its respect for developers and flight sim enthusiasts of all kinds.Second: AVSIM would be a trusted name to both users and developers. We all should be making contributions to help AVSIM afloat. This newest method would be strictly voluntary. Downloads would continue to be free. Freeware developers would "contribute" by allowing AVSIM the rights to copy their Freeware on a CD. Users would "contribute" by paying AVSIM for the convenience plus some profit to allow AVSIM to continue to upgrade and better it's system.It is a win win scenario for all. I live in an area where there is no DSL, cable access is very high and very saturated (due to lack of DSL) and "satellite" is totally off the charts. Thus dialup is my only recourse. I have high speed access at work, but unfortunately, my work "blocks" Avsim. (luckily they haven't blocked FSGENESIS or I would be in big trouble)As a result, I have to pick and choose my downloads here VERY carefully. If I blow an evening getting a great looking download only to find out that it either is a "dog" or crashes my system, or whatever, I lose an entire evening.By using Bear's reviews as reference, I can weed out the dogs and the FSOD's and know that I am getting quality freeware. Award winning freeware.The author gets great recognition, as well as a copy of the "review" praising his work distributed with his package. All it would require is the consent of the freeware developer, and if enough people thought it a could idea, Avsim could include this consent as part of the upload agreement.I'm looking for input from other freeware and shareware developers. Is this a fair plan. End users, would you pay $10.00 for a monthly or bi-monthly CD with the "best" flight sim addons? I think it's a great idea, and surely if the freeware developers "trust" Avsim to distribute their work electronically, they can trust them to compile a CD and use the proceeds wisely.What do you say guys? I'd buy it the second it came out....

Its a good idea Will, but I have a suspicion that the folks upset over distribution are actually suffering from a hidden desire to be payware authors, but can't bring themselves to admit that to themselves or the community. Its just a theory, but the thread we were involved in did make that theory at least plausable. It was fun having that discussion and I find it really cool to come away with an idea I hadn't had at the beginning....and it makes sense...pure hunger for power seems oddly unlikely to me, I only suggested it as I had no other theory that fit the evidence.If I'm right and we face a hidden envy factor within vocal freeware authors, they will likely find themselves objecting to your idea also, as they remain unpaid...the real unrequited need that causes the opposition.Course, I could be wrong....Best,Bob B

Will, very good idea. Don't know how well it would go over, with all that would be participating in the venture. Very well thought out idea.

:-outta

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It's a very good idea, but wonder if it is logistically possible.One problem is if an author spits his/her dummy out over something and demands that all CDs with his/her work on are destroyed. It has happened before, naming no names.

I certainly wouldn't agree to having any of my work placed on CD. POSKY don't allow any work to be placed on any form of media either.Our files are freely available from Avsim. There is no need for them to be placed onto CD. In this day and age ISPs provide generous bandwith allowances to most people for a reasonable amount.

I have dial-up service myself and have no problems with downloads. If it's a large plane/scenery, I will set up the download for the slowest time of the day, usually late night. I'll start it and go to bed. When I get up, it's there. We have all the other types of services here, but it's a $$ situation with me. Try downloading from midnight to 6 am and see if you can tell the difference. You should be able to, unless everyone else has the same idea! Don

One of my concerns in such an endeavor would be support. Anyone who purchased a compiled CD would naturally want support if they encountered any problems. Since many of the freeware packages use a WinZip type carrier, they need to be installed in MSFS manually. While this isn't a problem for those of us who have been around for a while, it could present a problem for the newbies. And if a file was somehow corrupted, how would the purchaser resolve the problem?Who would handle and absorb the cost of support? AVSIM or the authors? The purchaser would naturally turn to the point of purchase (AVSIM). Would AVSIM be willing to absorb the cost of such support (it's not cheap)? Clearly, this cost could be added to the compiled CD product, but would folks point the finger at AVSIM for making an "outrageous profit" because of the high cost?Finally, there is the issue of copycat compilers. I'm afraid crooks (FSPlanet comes to mind) would jump on the "Favorites of the Month" bandwagon and start blatantly selling the freeware on CD. Right now we have the rogue dummy who tries this sort of thing, but if a respected site like AVSIM were to make such a thing, would not the floodgates open?It's an intriqing concept, but as JDH pointed out there are some logistical issues that must be dealt with.

We have been asked to consider this type of thing many times. We have kicked it, or some varient of it, around at every Board meeting that I can remember. We have always declined to do this for a variety of reasons. First is the management overhead. An endeavor like this would take a considerable number of people a lot of time to manage and do. Ask anyone who sends us an email these days... we can barely keep up with the mail, and we certainly don't have the people or the time to take on a task like this.The other issues are as have been suggested; AVSIM would be required to provide support. Saying "we only compiled the cd" wouldn't cut it. We know that from just running a news and forums site. You would not believe what we are held accountable for (including infantile expectations that we can cater to everyone, all the time, instantly whenever they want). I can't imagine attempting to supply support for a couple of thousand CD owners who have not a clue how to install an a/c, scenery, panel, whatever.And the person that suggested an issue with an author who then demands that we remove his work from all CD's is right on the money. We had a guy just yesterday demand that we remove a file from the library he had contributed over a year ago, simply because we were not responsive enough in answering a question of his. I can just see the threats from the children among us who might happen to get their work on that CD and then when they feel slighted, AVSIM's the great evil again. No thanks. The staff and I don't have time for that foolishness and we do have IMHO, more important things to bring to the community than a convenient CD of downloads.

Alas, a good idea shot down by the potential pettiness of a few...That's what I was afraid of. Even a respected site like AVSIM can't be "trusted" with such an endeavor. I thought being honored to be included in such a CD would be reward enough, but I guess I am wrong.Oh well, just a thought.

Will,Magazines such as PC Pilot www.pcpilot.net (in the UK) always include a CD-Rom with each issue containing all sorts of utilities, patches, demo's and the best of current freeware. Maybe you should think about contacting them and the others mgazines around, whom I can't remember off the top of my head.Seems to me that would be the best way of getting the files distributed. Of course you would have to purchase the publication first!Just a thought.RegardsTimhttp://www.cambridgeflyingclub.com/images/timavatar2.gif

Isn't buying the magazine identical to paying the guy on ebay a couple bucks for a cd?Such was the situation that spawned the "other" thread!B

<The big difference being that PC Pilot actually asks contributors if they wish to include their work on the CD. The guy on Ebay was just out to make a buck at the expense of freeware authors.

"Its a good idea Will, but I have a suspicion that the folks upset over distribution are actually suffering from a hidden desire to be payware authors, but can't bring themselves to admit that to themselves or the community."You already know I admit it Bob :) That's why I included a license.txt with my work stating what I allow and what I won't--it's my call and no one else's. Heck, if Microsoft called me tomorrow and asked to license LCA as part of their next SDK, I'd sell out. So in my case, that's one of the reasons I stand behind my rights as strongly as I do.But Tom mentioned the other reason which is more serious to me--that of people viewing paid distribution of our work as requiring some means of support. I like the fact that I can finish a project and walk away to the next one. That's why I'm in such awe of folks like FFX, Project Opensky, who churn out freeware projects and support them. My time simply doesn't allow for that. And, I feel you're oversimplifying the reasons freeware authors fight for their rights and fight to keep their work free. I already said in another thread--and I didn't see your reply--I won't allow anyone to buy the life of my wife or daughter, even if it cost my own. Does your reasoning feel that such protectiveness is out of my own desire to profit from them? Do you see the comparison? My work is also a labor of love just as my family is. I'm not going to let anyone sell it if that wasn't my intent. I don't like the fact that you and others seem to wish us to look like the ogres in this fight. That's your opinion, but in my world we call it rationalization.Hidden envy factor? Is that the new game? Someone steals freeware, compiles it, profits from it....and our concern is rationalized away as envy? I envy talent like Flight1, Dreamfleet, Eaglesoft, that have the time to create and sell software. I don't envy pirates on ebay who take but don't create.... Do I envy the person who stole my car? Who slept on my porch? Who stole a bunch of furniture from my garage and sold it as their own? Rhetorical questions, but the point--I just don't get this nonsense....To sum up, I feel you're trying to take the point of this thread and twist it to make another point. Personally, if Avsim found a way to protect the authors involved, I'd be proud to offer my work for any of compilation of theirs which allows them to defray the costs of keeping a site like this open. -John