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Ramjett53

Scenery Builder Files

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Hi all,I have been using ADE9x, AFCAD2, Rwy12, and EZ-Scenery in varying degrees to redesign or design scenery for my system (FS9). Anytime I go into one of the Object Library drop-downs to select a building or object to place I usually see the same library listed several times. (If this is confusing I can add a screenshot to a later post). Also, for every file I have in the library, let's say Jetwaysbn.bgl it will be listed 2 or three times plus there will be another entry farther down in the drop down that says library_jetwaysbn.bgl that has the identical objects as jetwaysbn. I assume this is because my scenery builder program is reading every instance of where jetwaysbn.bgl (or any .bgl file) is located.So, if I have added on a scenery I downloaded elsewhere and that scenery included jetwaysbm.bgl in the scenery folder, my builder program is reading it as a separate library.I think. I have the recommended Static Oblects Library added on in Addon Scenery and the EZ-Scenery folder added also in Addon scenery. Lately everything I download that has a library included goes in one of the other.My question...sorry it took so long...can I search my system for all the files that are duplicated in my objects drop-down list and delete or move them all to either Static Objects or EZ-Scenery folders in Addon Scenery and still get the added scenery to work?Sorry if this is unclear, I know what I mean, I'm not explaining it well.Randy

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Hello Randy,The answer is yes, you are absolutely correct. You can place one version of each object library bgl in an active scenery folder and all your scenery that calls that or those objects will find it (them) there and display everything correctly.Best regards.Luis

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Thanks Luis,I appreciate your response. Just one add on question (pun intended). Can I do the same thing with the textures?Thanks again!Randy

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95% of the time what you want to do will work. Almost always the BGL files can be placed in a single \scenery folder, but there are problems with textures and trying to place them into a single \texture folder.More than once I found work done by different designers who created objects with similar texture names. So if designer "A" makes an object and uses a texture named Orange.Bmp and then designer "B" makes a different object using a different texture layout, but also named Orange.Bmp, what do you do?What I ended up doing is taking the work for EZ-Scenery, Instant Scenery, Rwy12 and making folders for each designer, with a matching \scenery and \texture folder. While it was more effort on my part, I found it less likely that designer A would totally remake his Orange.Bmp file from one object to the next. And I then didn't have to worry if designer "D" came along and also had a texture named Orange.Bmp. It was going into it's own folder structure and FS9 or FSX would sort it all out.

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Meshman,That makes sense. One final question with a specific example. Based on what I have read here I did a file search for one specific .bgl file that is used in a lot of addon scenery, ABW.bgl. It shows up in the EZ-Scenery Drop Down BGL list 7 times. Twice as ABW.bgl and five times as Library_ABW.bgl.The ABW.bgl copies are in Addon Scenery/EZ-Scenery/scenery and Addon Scenery/Static Object Library/scenery. The Library_ABW.bgl files are all in Addon Scenery inside specifc sceneries that I have downloaded and installed; namely ZBAA, MMSD, KJFKv7, MIAv4, and EGLL. A sixth one shows on my file search list in JFKv5, but although I left it in the Addon Scenery folder within FS9 I disabled it in the settings/scenery library function of FS9 when I installed the new JFKv7 so maybe that is why it doesn't show six copies in my EZ-Scenery Drop Down List.This really one question with several parts.1) I assume ABW.bgl and Library_ABW.bgl are not the same file, although they both contain the exact same objects. Therefore I will need both.2. I should be able to move all copies of ABW.bgl and Library_ABW.bgl into either EZ-Scenery/scenery or Static Objects Library/scenery and all sceneries that require that .bgl will still display properly. In the move process I should let the youngest file overwrite all older versions so I end up with only one copy of ABW.bgl and one copy of Library_ABW.bgl. Obviously I will make a copy of each and have moved to my "back up" location "just in case". 3) Having taken care of 1 and 2 above, does it matter where in the FS9/Addon Scenery Priority list I have EZ-Scenery and/or Static Objects Library? In other words, If I have 100 addon scenery files in FS9/Addon Scenery and Static Objects Library is priority number 100 but a file needing it is number 1, will the object still display correctly? The corollary question would be should EZ-Scenery/scenery and Static Objects Library/scenery be priority 1 and 2 always?You may wonder why this is becoming such a big deal for me, because I have been placing objects for a couple of years now and they always display properly...because we are only dealing with my system. I only recently tried sharing my designs with other sim users and had a great deal of trouble finding the location of the object's bgl file and texture to include with the scenery design so other users would not have to download additional files to make my sceneries work.I am a pest, I know, but I appreciate everyone's help...I really do...:( Randy

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Since your work is for FS9, each of the library BGL files has a matching TXT file. The TXT file will contain the GUID and name of the object. Comparing those will allow you to determine if the files are exact duplicates or not. IF they are, use the most current. If they aren't, both will need to be retained.Since the folder(s) that contain the libraries and textures are part of a pyramid of sorts, they serve more as a foundation upon the base terrain, from which you create your work. Your work sits higher up in the pyramid, so the library object folders can go lower in the Scenery Library display. For the "many, many" libraries I have I place them just above the \Addon Scenery folder and then everything else goes above that.Since I segregate my object libraries by developer, it is easier to keep track of what I might have used. A simple spreadsheet serves as a checklist, where I have a row for every object library BGL and whether it's used or not. Having a tool to print a directory listing and saving that to a TXT file, which I then import into the spreadsheet makes it fairly simple.The other thing worth mentioning is Instant Scenery vs. EZ-Scenery. Both have been developed by the same person, with Instant Scenery being sold via Flight1. Instant Scenery 2 adds some additional functionality and includes the ability to display which object libraries have been used when placing objects. That alone makes it worth the price, IMHO! :(

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Hello:A few additional considerations and caveats merit mentioning here. B) FS is only able to access / utilize scenery objects when the files that contain them are set "active" in the FS Scenery Library GUI / Scenery.Cfg file.Once the files that contain scenery objects are set "active" in the FS Scenery Library GUI / Scenery.Cfg file, FS will find them no matter where they are in that FS Scenery Library stack of layers.FS is only able to identify and utilize scenery objects based on their GUID... NOT their file name {or a "friendly name" when listed in the associated objects.txt file AND if that file is also included in the \Scenery folder that contains the scenery object(s)}.If one big folder is created to contain all BGLs or MDLs, there is a risk of over-writing scenery objects that are unique, but have the same nameIf one big folder is created to contain all textures, there is a risk of over-writing texture that are unique, but have the same nameI did this once with the FL390 compendium so nicely gathered by Joe DeGregorio. Once that package was installed, FS took a longer time to load since all "active" MDLs BGLs and all associated textures are inventoried by FS during start-up to confirm they are physically present, regardless of whether they are ever used in a given flight.Then I decided to be sure the contents of all those different authors libraries were up to date in the FL390 \Scenery and \Texture folders, and hunted all over the FS websites to find the originals and any updates.I goofed when I began copying the files into the respective FL390 colossally huge \Scenery and \Texture folders using Windows Explorer (my mistake !), when a duplicate file was detected, rather than prompting for an 'overwrite' as intended, Windows Explorer simply dropped them into the target folder naming them "Copy of [file name.extension]".Consequently, I ended up with THOUSANDS of duplicate files, which apparently confused FS so badly, that when it attempted to load objects, it was brought to its knees... and moved so slowly it was like molasses on a morning in the Artic circle, eventually crashing ! :( After I discovered my error, when I compared the original and duplicate files, I also found Joe's versions of the FL390 grouped BGLs and Textures were already up to date anyway ! And when I deleted all the (thousands of) duplicated copies of files, FS resumed functioning normally. B) I now prefer to keep all my add-on 3rd party scenery object libraries separate for "better" management and control.BTW: Arno has previously mentioned the cumulative impact that duplicate GUIDs in FS objects can have on FS performance and memory utilization.Due to inclusion of duplicate FS scenery object MDLs and BGLs in multiple add-on scenery packages, we may have some compromise of resulting FS performance.I suppose it is possible that FS may first load GUIDS from scenery object MDLs / BGLs that have higher priority in the scenery library stack of layers, and that it may then "ignore" the duplicate objects lower in the priority stack.. but I'm not sure.But to be safer, I would try to avoid duplication of FS scenery objects if at all possible... to optimize FS performance.I wish we had a FS utility that identifies FS files containing duplicate GUIDS.I envision a "Scan GUID" utility comparable to 'ScanAFD' used to find duplicate FS9 airport facilities files.http://forum.avsim.net/topic/254445-afcad-or-scanafd-question/Jon Masterson (aka "Scruffyduck") has a utility called FSX Airport Scanner (FAS) which as an accessory to his Airport Design Engine (aka "ADE"), checks for FSX files containing the same airport.http://www.wiki.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13170These utilities help us avoid visible or invisible issues with airports that impact FS performance, and perhaps even cause crashes.One might wonder whether we should also investigate visible or invisible issues with scenery objects that impact FS performance, and perhaps even cause crashes ! FYI: Jon Masterson (aka "Scruffyduck") also has a utility to manage MDL and BGL based / "XML-place-able" type FS scenery objects called "Library Object Manager" or "LOM", which may be of some use working with collections of such objects.Unfortunately LOM doesn't identify / report "duplicate" GUIDs (PLEASE Jon, add this feature to LOM and/or ADE !) :( Hope these considerations help folks in their work with collections of FS scenery library objects ! :( GaryGB

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Hope you don't mind if I toss in my 2% of a dollar.When dealing with multiple copies of object libraries you can start by checking the file size, if they are the same size it's a good chance they are identical.If you want to know for sure Google and download WinMerge .It is a small program that will compare two files on a binary level and verify they are duplicates. It is a very useful program that I use often.As stated by others, there is no benefit from having two copies of the same object library and actually that scenario can have a negative impact on objects displaying correctly.If you have ever had objects displayed without textures, it was most likely caused by having multiple copies of an object library in active scenery folders. FS will only recognize one of them, regardless of whether they have the same filename. If the one being used by FS does not have all of it's textures in the texture folder paired with the scenery folder containing the object library .bgl (or in the main FS\Texture folder) objects will be displayed without textures.After several hours trying to determine how FS decides which object library to use when more than one copy exists, I can definitively state that there is no predictable reason how FS decides which object library to use when more than one copy exists.I know for sure that it is not decided by scenery priority and I know for sure that FS will not always use an object library that is included in a particular sceneries folder. In regards to ABW.bgl and Library_ABW.bgl, ABW.bgl was created by Scot Ingram. I will bet dollars to donuts that Library_ABW.bgl comes from an addon created by Will Morgan, AKA FRF sceneries. It is common for Will to rename object libraries in that manner, and not include all of the textures required by that library, only those needed by that particular addon. I wish he wouldn't include object libraries created by others in his addons, but he is not the only person who does. And I really wish he wouldn't rename them.I like his addons, but have spent a fair amount of my time cleaning all the excess crap out of his (and others) packages before installing them in my FS.Lastly, I have seen instances where developers de-compile and modify object libraries for their own benefit, without changing the objects GUIDs. These changes are global in nature and the developers either don't care or (more likely) don't understand the side effects of their actions. More commonly than that, I have seen developers edit textures for object libraries and again, these changes are global in nature.A perfect example is Will Morgan's Cancun addon where he edited a texture for add_dwag_signs.BGL so he could use a billboard for a fascia around the new terminal. That change will either not work at Cancun or change an Air Charter Bahamas sign to his fascia design, worldwide.I don't know if Will obtained permission to edit that texture or not. If he didn't, isn't that a copyright violation?Anywho, enough of my rants. I hope they helped.regards,Joe

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I wish we had a FS utility that identifies FS files containing duplicate GUIDS.Unfortunately LOM doesn't identify / report "duplicate" GUIDs (PLEASE Jon, add this feature to LOM and/or ADE !) :( GaryGB
Unfortunately that is only part of the story. There are unfortunatly cases where people have repackaged objects into a new library and used new GUIDS. We therefore have a situation where the same object may appear a number of times with different identifiers as well as with the same one. Also if they have the same and are repackaged then finding the duplicates is only part of the story. It may well be that the same object is packaged in different libraries with different overall contents. So removing one of them is not a trivial exercise. However I have made a note of the request!

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