Hi all, I've searched few forums about these 2 programs but it seems people are just comparing them. I need some informations and see if I can go along with it or not.I've read this topic but still confusedhttp://forum.avsim.n...43/page__st__25Since I love to see AI flying around, I would like to know which one can handle the AI better and without conflict. PFE can guide us from the gate to the runway and back,RC4 doesn't but which one control the ground better? Without this feature, I can use the airport chart anyway :(

With regards to PFE, I mean you can't save a flight in mid-flight and go back to it with PFE picking up where you left off. You can re-load the saved flight and continue on, but PFE won't continue on with the flight as per normal. It's like Trelane just wrote in his most recent post. RC4 has that ability.

Is this still true with the latest version of PFE?Can I ask the ATC to change the cruising level (such as step climb) with both of these addons? Can I use the time accelaration?Another one,which is not realistic at all but quite important to me. Because of time pressure with loads of homework, when using the default ATC,I usually contact with the ATC until I reach cruise altitude,fly for a while until it assigns me to the next control tower. I answer and leave my FS there to do homework and stuff. When I'm close to TOD, I just contact to the tower at that time and fly the rest of my flightplan. Can this be done (this way or other way) with PFE or RC4?I am using FSBUILD to create the flightplans so I think there won't be anything much about "flight planning" feature of these 2 that I want to know/I'm little bored of flying "depth" all the time with the default ATC. Maybe my mouth needs some movements :(

You can certainly use 2X acceleration with PFE. Beyonf that is not reccomended even for other add-ons like CIVA INS!Build your step climbs into your flight plan. The aeroplane I fly is still capable of 1,500fpm fully loaded above FL350. So your step climbs depend on your a/c specs.Try flying shorter routes. Then at least you can stay at your computer even though PFE's P2 can fly the a/c for you.vololiberista

You can use 2X acceleration in cruise phases of RC4. However, especially if using high performance loading weather add-ons with FSX it may not be trouble free due to the readings of aircraft position, heading, and altitude.RC4 does not control ground AI other than when on the last couple of miles of final freezing AI next to the runway to resist runway incursions. FS itself can prevent user-AI aircraft crash protection.If you are flying a fully FS compatible aircraft you can save and restore a flight midpoint in RC4. RC4 can also pause your flight at a specified point so you can nap during pond crossings. The recommended pause is about 200 nm from destination. The aircraft model must permit full restoration of the state it is in without the use of special state saving utilities such as on most PMDG models. There is also a free utility available from the FSUIPC site that periodically for a number of saved files you specify will automatically save your flight so you should be able to start from a position before a computer crash, etc.RC step climbs and descends to/from your filed altitude. I believe this varies for your type of aircraft which you state preflight in the class of heavy, jet, turbo-prop, or prop. For cruise you file the lowest altitude and then request a change in flight as your fuel load lightens. This is similar to real world procedures. You also have the option of fully navigating on your own within the first 30 nm of departure and about the last 35 nm of arrival. If you have the arrival comms you can request a pilot's discretion descent to delay the initial descent from cruise. You still must meet the RC4 issued crossing restriction about 40 nm from destination.The RC copilot can handle comms for you but you give up a bit of flexibility. The copilot can also fly your aircraft providing it uses the standard FS interface for its autopilot which RC commands to fly the aircraft.I think you'll find sections of the RC43 manual and other information, particularly tutorials, interesting and are available from links here:http://www.jdtllc.com/documentation.htmI suggest you look at the utility AI Smooth version 1.20 for approach separation of AI (and optionally usuer aircraft). It works with both FSX and FS9 and is in the FSX Utility section of the AVSIM library. It is handy for for spacing out arrivals so you can squeeze in and it also allows you and AI to squeeze in when you wish to depart. It also thins down the AI take-off queue.I also use FSBuild and am pasting in some comments on it that apply to RC and probably some facets of PFE:---------------------------FSB tips:1. Include this line in FSbuild.cfg:NAVCHKDUPDIST=100This decreases the chance of using the wrong duplicate named local (to the airport) waypiont from a nearby airport. Local waypoint names are not exclusive. It decreases the database search when it is named in the route to within a 100 nm radius of your airport. You will find these in terminal procedures such as "D" number something within a SID or STAR to define a merge or turning point.2. When doing a Auto Generate (Route) be sure the SR (Stored Route) button next to it is "up" that is not highlighted. Auto Generate will use a stored route if found by default and most are out of date with old waypoints and terminal procedures. Having Stored Routes off forces it to search a path with fresh data. (Now off by default in version 2.4.)**REVISED 12/31/10** 3. Starting soon in 2011 FS Build database updates will be exclusively released through navigraph.com. It should be part of the FMC data line. For those not familiar with Navigraph each subscription term (cycle) includes multiple format downloads at no additional cost. This is very convenient for aligning FMC/navigation equipment databases with the flightplanner so among other things ATC data and your nav equipment data should match as you send a plan to ATC and then load it including terminal procedures into your FMC. The 2.4 upgrade includes the thirteenth cycle of 2010.4. Where an airport uses specific runways for different terminal procedures select the runway using an estimate based on weather and if the runway fits your aircraft requirements before doing the Auto Generate. This helps select the correct SID and STAR for the runway and direction of departure and arrival.5. After the Auto Generate and/or first build look at the map created to spot any obvious errors. In the route grid look for any sudden non-sensible changes in direction or extremely long legs not in the correct direction creating a zig-zag in the map. (See item 6 following to correct).6. Be aware there is an option you can set for each session titled "Build Route from Grid Table". It does not stick between sessions. This lets you build from an edited route grid that you may have modified without recreating the table with the same error on your next build/export. For example you might wish to drop an errant waypoint when proofing the map and rebuilding.7. Sometimes the name of a procedure (SID/STAR) does not match the name exactly in a published route and the procedure will not expand into its plan waypoints in the grid table. You can click on the arrow in the SID/STAR box to see what close name is in the FSB database. (Another reason to keep up with AIRACS.) For example KMSP has a current real such as this one:http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KMSP/DP/WAUKON+TWObut the FSB database only has UKN2. (It does have UKN3 now with the latest available AIRAC update). If so in the route line just change UKN3 to UKN2 so it will expand. Here's a real route from flightaware.com for KMSP to KMDW:KMSP UKN3 DBQ CVA MOTIF3 KMDWthat can be pasted into the FSB route line. If UKN3 or MOTIF3 does not expand in the route grid to individual way points look in the upper part of FSB in the airport section dropping down the SID or STAR box to get the available version and substitute that label in the route line and rebuild. Note that the SID and STAR dropdowns may follow the chosen runway in certain areas.8. Sometimes it takes a second build to get the map to move and/or magnify. The mouse scroll wheel lets you magnify. Just click on the portion of the map you want to center on and scroll to magnify.9. If you click on a line in the route grid table to highlight it, the waypoint on the map will turn red. This is useful for finding errant waypoints that cause an error in the path. That line can then be edited or deleted and a rebuild accomplished with the build option to build from the route grid table.10. If you are running a weather program such as active sky, first build the route in FSB exporting to FS9 using an anticipated cruise altitude and specify the nearest aircraft profile. In AS get the weather you wish to use. (I always get the weather for the zulu time of the departure in FS since time of day affects weather characteristics). Import the plan into AS via the new route button, check the altitude and choose an appropriate true airspeed in knots (this is your no wind ground speed). Process the route. When it is finished click the button to print a hard copy of all. Use this AS navlog for METAR data at both ends and winds aloft and temperature aloft that can be used for FMC data. (You'll also get your estimated average wind at your specified altitude - handy for FMC data.) Leave AS running. Now go back to FSB and your chosen aircraft profile. Enter the surface temperature from your departure METAR, then estimated total taxi time, hold time, and extra time (sometimes called discretionary fuel). Now turn on again your FS9 export along with any FMC export you might use. Rebuild and you'll see the messages regarding the export completion. On the route selection on the left which brings up your route window select the navlog tab and click the .pdf to save the navlog in a file or the print button to get a hard copy so you can easily reference the estimated fuel and other data. This estimated fuel has now taken into account your winds aloft data - no need to enter it in FSB. Now that you have the hard copy and exported your route, you can first optionally save the plan by selecting flightplan window, then clicking the category tab, then select user category. Now click file, save from the menu bar. The name you might want to embellish. Click Save Route To User Flight Plans. For another session, you can recall this working plan and just build.11. If you are using an aircraft with nav equipment that has its own terminal data procedures in its nav equipment (think FMC) you might wish to use step 6 above to take out the waypoints of the terminal procedures keeping just the transition points and build and export with just them. This easily in most cases lets you select the SID and STAR assigned by ATC on your nav equipment by providing a clean legs list in your nav equipment. If you need ATC to monitor the waypoints of the terminal procedure than just export all. To keep ATC and you nav equipment in sync, you might consider importing the full plan into your nav equipment and not using your nav equipment procedure database.This is kind of long but through experience I've described some tricks I've used watching out for any pitfalls.Be sure to check the FSBuild forum for updates.

You can certainly use 2X acceleration with PFE. Beyonf that is not reccomended even for other add-ons like CIVA INS!Build your step climbs into your flight plan. The aeroplane I fly is still capable of 1,500fpm fully loaded above FL350. So your step climbs depend on your a/c specs.Try flying shorter routes. Then at least you can stay at your computer even though PFE's P2 can fly the a/c for you.vololiberista

Thanks,but if my FS9 crashes in the middle of the flight (and I use autosave), can I be able to return from the latest saved flight?---Got it, the PFE has the resume feature now.@ronzie: wow lots of useful information, thanks a lot :( I'll look into my FSBUILD now, I usually use the flightplan from flightaware and build it in FSBUILD.Does PFE provide voice recognition, or is it only by keyboard command? RC4 has this feature if I'm correct.Can we use both default ATC and RC4(or PFE) at a time? Since RC4 doesn't control the AI on the ground, is it possible to use the FS9 ATC instead?When it comes to choosing one of these 2 really blow my head off.

I also use for the FAA areas flightaware plans in FSBuild as noted in my post. Note that the flightaware route page allows you to expand the terminal procedures (SIDs and STARs) into individual waypoints as well.The voice recognition is not a feature of RC but a voice/menu interface can be used with the SuperATC module of It's Your Plane. I'm not sure if that module is offered separately. It does have a modifiable table of phrases to RC keystrokes included that you can modify.In RC you can leave FS ATC running if you wish but we recommend turning the ATC sound mixer down in the FS settings to avoid confusion. RC directly uses your .wav mixer in your Windows audio mixer. RC will give you the ATC voices used with AI as chosen in its setup. In FS9 sometimes there is an atc.dll crash when running another ATC program outside of FS. There is a modification to the FSUIPC.ini file that can resist this by shutting down just the ATC portion of FS9. This does not affect the AI engine nor communications with AI by RC. The FS ATC engine does not control AI anywhere to my knowledge. That is done by the AI FS engine. FS ATC issues instructions to you and monitors what you do.

Thanks,but if my FS9 crashes in the middle of the flight (and I use autosave), can I be able to return from the latest saved flight?---Got it, the PFE has the resume feature now.@ronzie: wow lots of useful information, thanks a lot :( I'll look into my FSBUILD now, I usually use the flightplan from flightaware and build it in FSBUILD.Does PFE provide voice recognition, or is it only by keyboard command? RC4 has this feature if I'm correct.Can we use both default ATC and RC4(or PFE) at a time? Since RC4 doesn't control the AI on the ground, is it possible to use the FS9 ATC instead?When it comes to choosing one of these 2 really blow my head off.

PFE recommends that the FS9 ATC sound is set to zero. Neither RC or PFE "control" AI. Only the sim ATC does that. However, they will both issue instructions to AI. If your pc is a bit sluggish set PFE to "above notmal priority" this avoids long delays waiting for ATC replies.vololibeirsta

Thanks both of you :( So can I talk to the ATC by voice in PFE or this feature only available in RC4?

Thanks both of you :( So can I talk to the ATC by voice in PFE or this feature only available in RC4?

HelloYou can talk to ATC with PFE and RC but you will need an external application, I use Shoot v1.6.4 with great success.Neither ATC program has built in speech recognition.VoxATC has built in speech recognition

RC4 controls AI as best it can in three situations:1. On the last very few miles of final it will speed up or slow AI close to you to avoid conflicts.2. In the same situation it can freeze ground AI to prevent runway encroachment.3. It can in some cases enroute issue deviations for traffic to AI and I believe your aircraft. You'll hear those calls to AI and you. At the very least it will issue you a traffic warning. It may not catch overtaking aircraft behind you or rapidly climbing or descending aircraft.In RC4 an option Interact with AI must be set to accomplish this.

PFE also issues traffic warnings according to the minima that you set. However, I don't mind close encounters with AI as it sets off my TCAS!!!!vololiberista

PFE also issues traffic warnings according to the minima that you set. However, I don't mind close encounters with AI as it sets off my TCAS!!!!vololiberista

Is PFE a stand alone addon? Does it install anything into FS9?

Is PFE a stand alone addon? Does it install anything into FS9?

It is a completely separate programme installed in a different directory. It connects to Fs9 through FSUIPC.vololiberista