Captains rewriting aviation law!

[realpilotsimpilot 11]

So, it is in the regs. But, as the incident I noted, can I direct your attention to (a) (4), which allows admission if the person is approved by the administrator, airline and the PIC, so if there were say a blanket exemption from the administrator and an airline approval to allow certain types of people in in certain circumstances (medical emergencies, or whatever), then that might be covered. As written, it does provide a clear exemption.

[michal 44]

As written, it does provide a clear exemption.

It does but clearly there is no exemption that would extend to a passenger who simply would like to do some sightseeing in the cockpit and this was clearly how this thread began. And clearly it is not just up to the captain.

[jon b 2,077]

We do a bit of positioning around the Caribbean in dash 8s. On a recent trip to Grenada the ground staff approached us saying they were completely full and would our captain mind taking the flight deck jump seat. Excellent ! I obviously agreed to their request and it was great to see a turbo prop from the flight deck again.During the course of the flight the flight crew and I came to the conclusion they wanted to fly my plane and I wanted to fly theirs.Obviously this was legal for that part of the world.Ultimately the Captain DOES have the authority to override even federal laws if he sees fit to do so, though this is obviously just in extreme circumstances ,and not for inviting people he likes to look at the flight deck.cheersJon Bunting

[mcbellette 145]

In Australia, Federal law prohibits entry to the flight deck during taxi, take-off, cruise, descent and landing by anyone who is not an authorised person. In other words, if you don't work for the airline and don't have an ASIC card (Australian Security Identification Card) then you cannot enter the cockpit. There are certain exceptions, such as occasions when ATC staff may take the jump seat to see how pilots work (there is a program which allows pilots to visit ATC centres to see how they work and vice versa in Australia). But even if you're married to the pilot, you generally can't get into the cockpit. It is, however, permitted for you to enter the cockpit upon arriving at your destination - at the discretion of the pilot in command and dependent upon time constraints. There has been some talk in Federal parliament about relaxing this law somewhat, although I doubt anything will happen for quite some time given the current security climate, which is a shame.

[realpilotsimpilot 11]

It does but clearly there is no exemption that would extend to a passenger who simply would like to do some sightseeing in the cockpit and this was clearly how this thread began. And clearly it is not just up to the captain.

Agreed.

[JoeyL 0]

Well, past year i was flying with Transavia Airlines, and on our flight a (pretty nice ) girl (i think she was 20 or somthing) was very scared of flying. She was allowed to go in the cockpit 'for a quick look', but she stayed in the cockpit all the flight (yes, also with T/O and landing.) So, i think it is still possible at some airliners..

[internerd 1]

I'm not going to get into this, in too much detail, but be sure to distinguish between "law" (menaing statutes, regulations, etc.) and "airline policies". You break the former you get in legal trouble, certificate actions, whatever. You break the latter you get fired or disciplined.

Slightly off topic thats not exactly true either. In Australia and NZ and I think pretty much everywhere else. Air Operators draw up Operations manuals which are then certified by CASA. Breaking something in the opps manual is considered to be a breach of the Civil Aviation Regs and therefore just as serious. Whether the opps manual would include guidance on entry to cockpit in flight, I don't know

[captainklm 1]

It's really the pilots decision, last year I saw 4 pilots at the gate but turns out 1 of them was the pilots friend. He spent the whole flight in the pointy end of the plane

[realpilotsimpilot 11]

Slightly off topic thats not exactly true either. In Australia and NZ and I think pretty much everywhere else. Air Operators draw up Operations manuals which are then certified by CASA. Breaking something in the opps manual is considered to be a breach of the Civil Aviation Regs and therefore just as serious. Whether the opps manual would include guidance on entry to cockpit in flight, I don't know

Thanks, that's an interesting tidbit. I did not know that. When I get a chance, I'll have to peruse the U.S. regs for something similar. (Side effect of being a lawyer in real life you may actually enjoy reading regulations for fun.)

[wanabflyer 53]

Its a real shame.. I have been flying (as a passenger sadly) since I was a baby.. Interest came quickly as my father was working for the Dutch airline. Many hours were spent on the flight decks of DC-10, MD-11, 744, A310, 737... I used to love it! They've taken away my favourite part of flying. In all fairness though, I do understand that some restrictions are required for safety.

Oh so true. I miss my trips up front, but God forbid we ever again see family's lives changed in the way they were on that day.

[michal 44]

It's really the pilots decision, last year I saw 4 pilots at the gate but turns out 1 of them was the pilots friend. He spent the whole flight in the pointy end of the plane

Unlikely, he could have been another pilot catching a ride on jump-seat - fully authorized for such a ride, not just a "friend".

[3-2-1-Now 126]

It is the Commanders (note that Captain != Commander) discretion as to whether there are visitors to the flight deck in flight, but if company SOP prohibits it then he could get the sack if management find out and hate the idea.As for cabin crew flatly refusing without asking first - that gets into the realm of flight deck/cabin crew politics.Best regards,Robin.

[michal 44]

but if company SOP prohibits it then he could get the sack if management

Again - this was beaten up here to death, in the US it is not company SOP but the Federal Law that regulates this. Company SOP can't overrule the law.