Being the nerd I am I love visiting the flight deck but after the tragic events of 9/11 this is not always possible.I thought It was the law not to allow any 'unauthorised' personnel on the flight deck once in flight. This seems to be regularly ignored though. Without mentioning any specific airlines (although they were either EU or US based) some captains have allowed children in whilst in flight and some say no but then allow them in whilst on the ground. Well to be honest, the captains tend to say yes but the stewards (politically correctness [cabin crew OR airborne worker] say no without asking.Have I got the law wrong and it's actually at the Captains discretion or do they just out rightly flout the law?

There is no absolute 'law' in the air, once off the ground, the pilot is the boss. Even internal flights do not have to follow the state laws of the state they are flying over as was prooved when one of the drier states attempted to prevent the use of alcohol on overhead aircraft. It is always and only the pilots discretion as to who can, and who can not enter the flight deck. Airlines can make rules or guidelines for the pilot to follow, but it remains the pilots decision. If you think about it, if the pilot says it is OK, then that person is authorised.

Not sure what airlines you've worked for with that analogy..but I know at mine it is certainly not allowed...we're not even allowed to allow off duty crew, yes even other flight crew, in the flight deck..only crew rostered for our flight can come up front...and even out of those they tend to only be the CSD, or number 1! An acception are those who are on the jump seat which we will have briefed about before the flight! It's NOT our call at all..the pilot cannot 'authorise' anyone at my airline...pretty sure they can't at any! I'd hope not..people other than currently scheduled operating crew have NO business in the flight deck in flight!! On the ground we're fine..can have anyone in, but as soon as the engines are running, we're bound by our SOP, and the law! The only people who can be 'authorised' to be in the flight deck are those with the proper air side passes rostered to be operating crew for that sector! Nothing else is remotly 'authorised'..We can say what they like...but they are by no means authorised to be in there in flight that's for sure....It's a legal minefield!Cheers.

Its a real shame.. I have been flying (as a passenger sadly) since I was a baby.. Interest came quickly as my father was working for the Dutch airline. Many hours were spent on the flight decks of DC-10, MD-11, 744, A310, 737... I used to love it! They've taken away my favourite part of flying. In all fairness though, I do understand that some restrictions are required for safety.

Its a real shame.. I have been flying (as a passenger sadly) since I was a baby.. Interest came quickly as my father was working for the Dutch airline. Many hours were spent on the flight decks of DC-10, MD-11, 744, A310, 737... I used to love it! They've taken away my favourite part of flying. In all fairness though, I do understand that some restrictions are required for safety.

Yeah you're right! Lucky you! I'd love to have gotten more experience of the three crew flight decks on some of the older aircraft! One of my coursemates got his first job with Avient on the DC-10....looks awesome fun..far cry from the computer I fly!

There is no absolute 'law' in the air, once off the ground, the pilot is the boss. Even internal flights do not have to follow the state laws of the state they are flying over as was prooved when one of the drier states attempted to prevent the use of alcohol on overhead aircraft. It is always and only the pilots discretion as to who can, and who can not enter the flight deck. Airlines can make rules or guidelines for the pilot to follow, but it remains the pilots decision. If you think about it, if the pilot says it is OK, then that person is authorised.

Never heard of ICAO Annex 2? While the pilot may have discretion regarding matters in emergencies, other wise the flight must follow the standard rules laid down in Annex 2, unless the specific rules of the contracting state differ from ICAO in which case you follow them, but they don't tend to be too different in general.Airlines have a set SOP as to who can enter the flight deck and when and this must be abided by. I know in my airline visitors are allowed on the ground when engines are stopped or in the air if you are an extra flight-crew jump-seating. Anyone else who wants to come onto the flight deck in flight must have obtained permission from the chief pilot and have been security vetted in addition. It helps to know someone at the airline.

Never heard of ICAO Annex 2? While the pilot may have discretion regarding matters in emergencies, other wise the flight must follow the standard rules laid down in Annex 2, unless the specific rules of the contracting state differ from ICAO in which case you follow them, but they don't tend to be too different in general.Airlines have a set SOP as to who can enter the flight deck and when and this must be abided by. I know in my airline visitors are allowed on the ground when engines are stopped or in the air if you are an extra flight-crew jump-seating. Anyone else who wants to come onto the flight deck in flight must have obtained permission from the chief pilot and have been security vetted in addition. It helps to know someone at the airline.

That's what I though but I saw children going up to the flight deck. It seems as if the captain has the final word and the rules go out of the window.

That's what I though but I saw children going up to the flight deck. It seems as if the captain has the final word and the rules go out of the window.

They likely had a letter from the chief pilot, I wouldn't look too far into it.

They likely had a letter from the chief pilot, I wouldn't look too far into it.

Okay, I just though it was strange as I'm not talking about a one time event. It happens often.

Never heard of ICAO Annex 2? While the pilot may have discretion regarding matters in emergencies, other wise the flight must follow the standard rules laid down in Annex 2, unless the specific rules of the contracting state differ from ICAO in which case you follow them, but they don't tend to be too different in general.Airlines have a set SOP as to who can enter the flight deck and when and this must be abided by. I know in my airline visitors are allowed on the ground when engines are stopped or in the air if you are an extra flight-crew jump-seating. Anyone else who wants to come onto the flight deck in flight must have obtained permission from the chief pilot and have been security vetted in addition. It helps to know someone at the airline.

Would that be the bit that says:

2.4 Authority of pilot-in-command of an aircraftThe pilot-in-command of an aircraft shall have final authorityas to the disposition of the aircraft while in command.

I couldn't find anything about who was allowed in the cockpit, perhaps you could point me in the right direction.

I couldn't find anything about who was allowed in the cockpit, perhaps you could point me in the right direction.

Each airline has it's own individual policy based on the national policy of the country in which it is registered. There is no actual policy per-say for everyone.

Perhaps try your question over at PPRuNe.org...... Been discussed ad nasuem there....

I'm not going to get into this, in too much detail, but be sure to distinguish between "law" (menaing statutes, regulations, etc.) and "airline policies". You break the former you get in legal trouble, certificate actions, whatever. You break the latter you get fired or disciplined. I know I've seen recently things like non-employees going into flight decks in flight. A specific incident involved a sick passenger on a transatlantic flight and a doctor on board went in to brief the crew after examining the patient. I don't work for an airline nor know their rules, but presumably the captian believed that to acceptable given the circumstances. I don't know of any specific provision in the U.S. regs that would prohibit this either. .

In the US not allowing entry in the cockpit during flight of anyone except the authorized crew is the Federal Law, it is not an airline policy. There are many other federal laws that pertain to flying - for example that everyone must be strapped in their seats during takeoffs and landings or that no piece of luggage can be in the aisle or on passenger's lap or no smoking laws, etc. No US captain can overrule such laws or if he did he would be in violation. So claiming that captain is "God" and can do as he pleases is really complete rubbish.

This is obviously for the US side of the pond in case you can't pick up that I am typing with an American accent :)For Part 121 (Which is what we are talking here)§ 121.547 Admission to flight deck.(a) No person may admit any person to the flight deck of an aircraft unless the person being admitted is—(1) A crewmember;(2) An FAA air carrier inspector, a DOD commercial air carrier evaluator, or an authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board, who is performing official duties;(3) Any person who—(i) Has permission of the pilot in command, an appropriate management official of the part 119 certificate holder, and the Administrator; and(ii) Is an employee of—(A) The United States, or(:( A part 119 certificate holder and whose duties are such that admission to the flightdeck is necessary or advantageous for safe operation; or© An aeronautical enterprise certificated by the Administrator and whose duties are such that admission to the flightdeck is necessary or advantageous for safe operation.(4) Any person who has the permission of the pilot in command, an appropriate management official of the part 119 certificate holder and the Administrator. Paragraph (a)(2) of this section does not limit the emergency authority of the pilot in command to exclude any person from the flightdeck in the interests of safety.(:( For the purposes of paragraph (a)(3) of this section, employees of the United States who deal responsibly with matters relating to safety and employees of the certificate holder whose efficiency would be increased by familiarity with flight conditions, may be admitted by the certificate holder. However, the certificate holder may not admit employees of traffic, sales, or other departments that are not directly related to flight operations, unless they are eligible under paragraph (a)(4) of this section.© No person may admit any person to the flight deck unless there is a seat available for his use in the passenger compartment, except—(1) An FAA air carrier inspector, a DOD commercial air carrier evaluator, or authorized representative of the Administrator or National Transportation Safety Board who is checking or observing flight operations;(2) An air traffic controller who is authorized by the Administrator to observe ATC procedures;(3) A certificated airman employed by the certificate holder whose duties require an airman certificate;(4) A certificated airman employed by another part 119 certificate holder whose duties with that part 119 certificate holder require an airman certificate and who is authorized by the part 119 certificate holder operating the aircraft to make specific trips over a route;(5) An employee of the part 119 certificate holder operating the aircraft whose duty is directly related to the conduct or planning of flight operations or the in-flight monitoring of aircraft equipment or operating procedures, if his presence on the flightdeck is necessary to perform his duties and he has been authorized in writing by a responsible supervisor, listed in the Operations Manual as having that authority; and(6) A technical representative of the manufacturer of the aircraft or its components whose duties are directly related to the in-flight monitoring of aircraft equipment or operating procedures, if his presence on the flightdeck is necessary to perform his duties and he has been authorized in writing by the Administrator and by a responsible supervisor of the operations department of the part 119 certificate holder, listed in the Operations Manual as having that authority.[Doc. No. 6258, 29 FR 19220, Dec. 31, 1964, as amended by Doc. No. 8084, 32 FR 5769, Apr. 11, 1967; Amdt. 121–253, 61 FR 2613, Jan. 26, 1996; Amdt. 121–288, 67 FR 2127, Jan. 15, 2002; Amdt. 121–298, 68 FR 41217, July 10, 2003]Now be it known, I allow a much broader list of folks in my Warrior II :) ....and just for those of you that are secret service agents, I know......§ 121.550 Secret Service Agents: Admission to flight deck.Whenever an Agent of the Secret Service who is assigned the duty of protecting a person aboard an aircraft operated by a certificate holder considers it necessary in the performance of his duty to ride on the flight deck of the aircraft, he must, upon request and presentation of his Secret Service credentials to the pilot in command of the aircraft, be admitted to the flight deck and permitted to occupy an observer seat thereon.[Doc. No. 9031, 35 FR 12061, July 28, 1970, as amended by Amdt. 121–253, 61 FR 2613, Jan. 26, 1996]