737NGX for Microsoft Flight - Possible?

[MistyBlue 8]

One ring to rule them all. A common delivery platform might work well for Apple and its very controlled OS, but something irks me about one company having all the power to tell the FS community how to do things their way. The FS community has always thrived on creativity and innovation that is "out of the box" and I just hope this method doesn't stifle the openness we have grown to love.

[JD396 38]

The "retirement" of the Flight Simulator brand is a little deceptive IMO. FSX is a new face on a very old platform... you can go all the way back to FS98 and see the same basic structure. Everything's been reworked and improved at some point or another but the end result is still old technology with a new face. That's why PMDG has to write up half of a new simulator and connect it to FSX... to bypass some inherent weaknesses. Also, there's computer games that look WAY better than FSX and run even smoother... the CPU-intensive graphics engine is Clinton-era technology, predating powerful GPUs.The fact is it's been a very long time since FS got a new engine... and so that's why they "shut down" the ACES studio as it were, and sold off the ESP engine to Lockheed. They're building a new one. They decided to rebrand it while they were at it and they'll apparently try to market it more to the general public than to us... Presumably they know we'll all buy it anyway no matter what aisle it's in or what the box looks like. Like I said, they know we ARE their market. (Or they should know that.) So I'm optimistic they won't let us down and we'll be pleased when we see it... but I do understand the worries, which I have from time to time too.

[Guest]

MS Flight will miss an ATC, a weather engine, a Flight Planner and a Nav Book. How can you call that a sim ?In addition, as JD345 correctly states, it is based on the ancient FS9 and MS Flight will aslo miss the usage of Direct X 11 just for this reason.It will support Kinetic Controller and it will use the MS Live circuit to allow Multiplayer sessions where you can perform acrobacies with a funny yellow plane modeled in a worst way than what I have seen in FS9.The first tutorial mission will let you fly over a navy frigate while at port and surrounding neighborhood with a luna park full of noisy kids who get scared if you fly low over them....., lot of colored stuff during the sunset but no simulation aspects.Not to mention the usage of Kinetic controller....the most sad aspect of MS Flight......To summarize, it is an arcade game based on ancient DX 9 , compatibile with DX 10 but not with DX 11, it uses an ancient game engine. Just compare its screenshots with the ones of modern games and you will subito notice that DX9 are still involved.It is like having a Tupolev MY 1968 and give it a double paint of new shining white color.Luckily PMDG is keeping flight simulatuions alive with gorgeous products like the upcoming 737 NGX . We are lucky !!Mark Fosseth

[Elliottc26 2]

I have to imagine Microsoft isn't so stupid as to torpedo the FS addon community. Sure, they want to perhaps have a broader audience... and they can throw in extra features that airliner sim freaks will never use without compromising the quality of the sim. They have to know that we ARE their market. I hope.

If Microsoft see a potential profit, you bet they'd muscle in! Microsoft have been known to be very aggressive and shrewd when it comes to business. Unfortunately, if Microsoft don't go after other market groups and segments, they'd be stupid as it will equal more revenue. Also, they have said it will be a sim; but, more than likely, also be a game. A jack of all trades and hopefully not master of none...I hope they don't make add-ons only available through their site as you'll be saying goodbye to a lot of sim businesses online.

[cmpbellsjc 2,963]

MS Flight will miss an ATC, a weather engine, a Flight Planner and a Nav Book. How can you call that a sim ?In addition, as JD345 correctly states, it is based on the ancient FS9 and MS Flight will aslo miss the usage of Direct X 11 just for this reason.It will support Kinetic Controller and it will use the MS Live circuit to allow Multiplayer sessions where you can perform acrobacies with a funny yellow plane modeled in a worst way than what I have seen in FS9.The first tutorial mission will let you fly over a navy frigate while at port and surrounding neighborhood with a luna park full of noisy kids who get scared if you fly low over them....., lot of colored stuff during the sunset but no simulation aspects.Not to mention the usage of Kinetic controller....the most sad aspect of MS Flight......To summarize, it is an arcade game based on ancient DX 9 , compatibile with DX 10 but not with DX 11, it uses an ancient game engine. Just compare its screenshots with the ones of modern games and you will subito notice that DX9 are still involved.It is like having a Tupolev MY 1968 and give it a double paint of new shining white color.Luckily PMDG is keeping flight simulatuions alive with gorgeous products like the upcoming 737 NGX . We are lucky !!Mark Fosseth

Where the heck are you getting your information? None of this has been published by MS and they have already stated that it will operate much like what we are already used to. They've never said it wont have a weather engine, ATC, or a flight planner.You shouldn't spread info like that without have a source to back it up.If I am wrong and you do have a source that states these things please share it, and I am not talking about posts from the internet from people who are just speculating.Sean Campbell

[Sawydz 4]

@Mark Fosseth:

I seen the broadcast of "Ten Minute Taxi" and he said that he had inside information that Microsoft Flight will be released February 2012. It will be a simulation that will be open and friendly to addon developers. All addons will be sold through the Microsoft store and will need no security within the software to protect against pirating. All developer software will be highly protected and secured by Microsoft.Default scenery should be at the standard of Orbx and the environment will provide real flight dynamics to addon aircraft. I suppose more similar to the way aircraft fly in X-Plane.

Gents-If you read Robert Yunque's post above, you will learn a bit about what is currently known about FLIGHT.As to whether PMDG will/will not support FLIGHT: We will make this decision if/when a viable business model is presented by the developers of FLIGHT that provides for the growth of future developers and development. A business model that places onerous financial burden and creativity strangling restrictions on the development of future products will obviously have a negative impact on such decision making.This is unfortunately the limit of what we can say at the moment.

If RSR confirms that, it means a little more to me than some web gossips.

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/ - check it out. A-10C developed for USAF training.It kicks the arse of FSX in every respect, and runs very well (40+ FPS maxed out on detail, online with 6 other A-10s and multiple AI units, and is fluid - no stutters).Best regards,Robin.

Robin, and what about Game Mode (both, avionics and flight model) in DCS Black Shark? It turns DCS into silly arcade game but it's presence didn't prevent DCS A10 from becoming what it is. Hardcore simmers are minority, therefor products must be adjusted for common, casual simmer. There's no way such person could fly Black Shark in Real Mode, it's not that easy even for more experienced ones. Learning to fly takes time, if whole family of MS Flight Simulator would be aimed only for hardcore simmers, you wouldn't be beta testing anything now, because in the end, real pilots have access to real simulators not to mention airplanes Best regards,

[xxJohnxx 21]

I am looking forward for X-Plane 10. This thread combinates some pics of it and also some viedos (it is german but at least there are some pics in it :( ). http://friendlyflusi...&threadID=19223I think the 747 which is shown there isn't looking bad at all. And also the global lightning system looks great. Best regardsJohn

[Guest]

Where the heck are you getting your information? None of this has been published by MS and they have already stated that it will operate much like what we are already used to. They've never said it wont have a weather engine, ATC, or a flight planner.You shouldn't spread info like that without have a source to back it up.If I am wrong and you do have a source that states these things please share it, and I am not talking about posts from the internet from people who are just speculating.Sean Campbell

MS commits errors, one of those is to have published for few minutes on its official site the picture of the MS Flight Frigate I mentioned along with another picture showing kids with the hands up and running scared in a cartoonish colored Luna Park. If you google a bit you should find both published somewhere, if MS didn't order to delete them from public web sites.If MS will change it or not within fall 2012 ( release period ) , who knows ? About the missing ATC, wheather management system, Nav Book, Flight Planner and Kinetic that's sure, trust me. Mark Fosseth

[cmpbellsjc 2,963]

About the missing ATC, wheather management system, Nav Book, Flight Planner and Kinetic that's sure, trust me. Mark Fosseth

Yeah, no offense but I will trust that the same as I would if you were trying to sell me ocean front property in AZ, haha.I can't speak to the Kinetic thing since I dont follow gaming controls and things of that nature, but I would bet my bottom dollar that the ATC, weather, nav book/flight planner will still be their as they have been in past releases. I doubt that the weather generator will be much better than what is normally included, but I sincerely doubt that they are going to make a flight sim with no weather generator.BTW, Tim an ex-ACES guy posted this the other day regarding the new version. Judging from what he said, and I do trust him considering his background, and what we have already seen, I would believe that those features you think will be missing will indeed still be included. As far as the Kinetic deal, i'm sure you can still use your Saitek, CH, or whatever controller you wish.

Guys,This version of FS (yeah, they may call it Flight, but its still just FS to me :-> ) will be just like every other version of FS:

• There will be some new features/modules/subsystems
• Some existing subsystems will be rewritten/greatly enhanced/etc
• Some existing subsystems will have code tweaks (speedups, bug fixes) and minor enhancements
• Some existing subsystems will be almost exactly the same (think Weather system, the system nobody wants to touch because they will then own it :-> )

You guys seem to thing there's some single "FS Engine" inside the codebase (ie that would be the entire program :-> ). There are whole bunches of subsystem engines (graphics pipeline, terrain system, autogen system, weather system, Aero modeling system, etc), they don't necessarliy all need to be rewritten for every release in order for there to be performance gains, enhanced graphics, etc in each new release :->Tim

I'll book mark this post then bring it up when Flights released and you can eat your hat, if you still around here by then :-)Sean Campbell

[Guest]

Yeah, no offense but I will trust that the same as I would if you were trying to sell me ocean front property in AZ, haha.I can't speak to the Kinetic thing since I dont follow gaming controls and things of that nature, but I would bet my bottom dollar that the ATC, weather, nav book/flight planner will still be their as they have been in past releases. I doubt that the weather generator will be much better than what is normally included, but I sincerely doubt that they are going to make a flight sim with no weather generator.BTW, Tim an ex-ACES guy posted this the other day regarding the new version. Judging from what he said, and I do trust him considering his background, and what we have already seen, I would believe that those features you think will be missing will indeed still be included. As far as the Kinetic deal, i'm sure you can still use your Saitek, CH, or whatever controller you wish.I'll book mark this post then bring it up when Flights released and you can eat your hat, if you still around here by then :-)Sean Campbell

Did you find the screenshots in the web or better did you look for it ?I guess that posting a link to those shots won't change your MS faith, correct ?If you are sorry ( mee too ) that there is no recent MS simulator that doesn't imply you have to let your hopes to overtake the reality.......If you want me to produce proof of what I say just let me have some proofs of the ATC, Flight Planner etc etc . as wellthxMark FossethP.S. I will be glad to eat my hat but I am under the impression you should start to buy a tasty one

[Sekstifire 10]

No flight planner and no ATC is good anyways, as those two components of FSX were total trash and unusable. Who cares about that. I will also, along with cmpbellsjc, point and laugh when they release FS11

[Guest]

No flight planner and no ATC is good anyways, as those two components of FSX were total trash and unusable. Who cares about that. I will also, along with cmpbellsjc, point and laugh when they release FS11

That's the reason ,you are on the edge.FSX ATC, Flight Planner, Weather management etc.. are pure rubbish and no one cares if they are in or not, above all because kids flying a yellow submarin......sorry a yellow plane couldn't care less of fiddling with anything else but a yellow plane doing a strange noise in the blue sky and over the shining water using their Kinetic controller and happily moving with arms wide open in their room to fly....what's is missing they ask ? Wrooooommmmm....sccscscscscsc.....brrrrrrrrrr........ looping in the sky. That's all they can to do in MS Flight.MArk Fosseth

[Sawydz 4]

Did you find the screenshots in the web or better did you look for it ?I guess that posting a link to those shots won't change your MS faith, correct ?If you are sorry ( mee too ) that there is no recent MS simulator that doesn't imply you have to let your hopes to overtake the reality.......If you want me to produce proof of what I say just let me have some proofs of the ATC, Flight Planner etc etc . as wellthxMark FossethP.S. I will be glad to eat my hat but I am under the impression you should start to buy a tasty one

And what is so wrong about that pics? You have expected to see 20 aircraft of PMDG quality included in 40 dollar worth package? I will repeat myself:- If you move all realism sliders in FS9/X you will get arcade game too, moreover, without addons they are both nothing more than arcade game, so nothing will change here-DCS Black Shark has silly Game Mode with huge red radar that covers 1/4 of my 24" screen and flight dynamics comparable with C64 heli games, which doesn't change the fact that it's very deep simulator, and A10 is even deeper. It's all up to you what you will use.Yeah, I know that they are making MS Flight simpler than MS FS, it's clearly stated in FAQ, but all we hardcore simmers need, is a new modern host for our addons and nothing more, because we wont use that features anyway. Let's just hope that this host will not only use our hardware to the maximum but also will add another barrier for pirates.I can eat my hat too, but as a vegetarian I'll need to buy straw one

That's the reason ,you are on the edge.FSX ATC, Flight Planner, Weather management etc.. are pure rubbish and no one cares if they are in or not, above all because kids flying a yellow submarin......sorry a yellow plane couldn't care less of fiddling with anything else but a yellow plane doing a strange noise in the blue sky and over the shining water using their Kinetic controller and happily moving with arms wide open in their room to fly....what's is missing they ask ? Wrooooommmmm....sccscscscscsc.....brrrrrrrrrr........ looping in the sky. That's all they can to do in MS Flight.MArk Fosseth

I think that you can't distinguish between MS Flight Simulator and... addons. Because all MS Flight Simulators are exactly what you wrote above. Third party addons made FS9/X what it is now, as default it nothing more than cartoon models making funny noises while pretending to simulate some flight. Regards,

[Ayster 73]

Did you find the screenshots in the web or better did you look for it ?I guess that posting a link to those shots won't change your MS faith, correct ?If you are sorry ( mee too ) that there is no recent MS simulator that doesn't imply you have to let your hopes to overtake the reality.......If you want me to produce proof of what I say just let me have some proofs of the ATC, Flight Planner etc etc . as well

Go ahead and share the link Mark. Nobody outside of MS knows exactly what Flight will be like, they have stated it will be for both seasoned simmers and newbies alike, so I am suspecting they will keep the simulation aspect the same as FSX and add in a few more of the game type stuff like missions etc for the newbies. The only things that worry me a bit is the use of the Game store and that existing FSX addons probably wont work out of the box. Also, since Microsoft have not mentioned anything about ATC, Flight Planner etc we can't produce proof that they will or wont be included!

[Guest]

Go ahead and share the link Mark.

Sure, just gimme the time to search them again into the non common pages of web.1. a warship at port ( something like a wwII warship anchored at port during sunset ) 2. a candy luna park with the typical Ms Flight cartoonish colors and sprites.I am looking into the web but please if someone of you is aware of the shots please post them, you will save me lot of time showing I am right and MS Flight is a no hope arcade.Thx