flare at what height?

[Max Kraus 349]

Don't be afraid of a firm landing. It's not a sign of a bad landing. Too many people try to grease it and run long.

[royski 0]

Don't be afraid of a firm landing. It's not a sign of a bad landing. Too many people try to grease it and run long.

I agree with you Max. Setting the throttles at idle at 30 feet works for me all the time. I've read in an earlier post - how could you land the plane with autothrottle on? If you want your speed controlled on finals you can have the AT engaged until reaching 100-200 feet above minimums. I've seen some landings at JustPlanes having done this.

[ICMC 1]

Anyone ever heard of a Boeing Landing?I have been flying on a lot of flight where the skipper did a Boeing landing as recommended in the Boeing ManualHit the runway Maybe Jan can confirm

[clum 2]

Regarding the thrust to idle altitude, some of you may have noticed that when using the HUGS, it calls for idle at the 30ft mark. This has worked very well for me so far at most weights/speeds with a flare at 10'. I've had to adjust the sensitivity curve of my Saitek yoke to match as best as possible the feeling of the real thing in my experience, as the default settings make the NGX handle like an F16. Maybe something to look at if some of you are really finding it difficult to control the flare.

[Wizz84 4]

vref +5, idling at 100, starting flaring slightly at 20. as i got the 737ngx i always start flaring at 50 like in the 747 and the md 11, had to do some go arounds berfore i figure it out

[Guest tonyf38]

Starts flare between 30-40' in the /800.. All landings are different...

[clum 2]

vref +5, idling at 100

That's very bad practice if you don't mind me saying. Far, far too high to be at idle thrust when close to the ground. You ideally want the thrust to reach idle at exactly the same moment that the main gear touch down.

[royski 0]

vref +5, idling at 100, starting flaring slightly at 20. as i got the 737ngx i always start flaring at 50 like in the 747 and the md 11, had to do some go arounds berfore i figure it out

Do this and you will hit the runway HARD... If you flare at 50 feet, the aircraft will definitely float above the runway... This is NEVER done in RW flying. Just my 2 cents... No offense intended.

[G550flyer 1,056]

After reading through this post, I decided to do a test for some comparing. I had a look at the training manual to become familiar with the text book landing procedure. To start, I checked out the landing geometry chart for the 600 to 900. It says that a -800 on a 3 degree glide path flaps 30 ref + 5 will have a body angle of 2.4. The short field 800 will have a angle of 3.6. A no flare touchdown will put you down about 630 to 650 feet from the threshold. Also states that care should be given to touch down at a minimum of 1000 ft down. The procedure states to initiate the flare when the gear is about 20 feet above the runway. The radio call outs are based on the gear height. The 20 call out is a great starting point, but your descent rate will also drive you to adjust it. The pitch change is 2 to 3 degrees. It also shows that the power pull should be done smoothly after the flare is initiated ideally reaching idle by touchdown. If the flare is too abrupt or thrust excessive, the plane will float. The touchdown body attitude chart shows the effect of airspeed on touchdown attitudes. I love these charts. I used them in the DC-10 when training new guys the landing procedure. The DC-10 was a little more challenging during landing, as there were not many visual cues due to the 6 to 8 degree attitude and pilots eye position above the runway. We flared primarily off the radio altimeter. We also used a procedure called the landing attitude demo. You initiated the flare up to 6 to 8 degrees and fed back in a little power. You maintained the attitude and floated down the runway while instructing the student. You point out what little cues that you have and allowed the student to soak in the flare picture. When the engineer called out 2 to 1 thousand remaining, you initiated a go-around. Once a pro at this, you could do this without touching down and getting the spoiler do not arm light. As with every plane, you want to learn that text book landing first. Once you have that as a base line, you can tweak to achieve better landings. For example, in the 10 you initiated at 50ft up to 6 to 8 degrees and she would come down firmly, but at the nominal touchdown point. That was text book. Guys then used techniques like flaring at 10% of your gross weight. 400k = start at the 40ft call out. Some used power on landings or fed in a lil power to smooth it out, but landed longer. I myself used the best of both worlds, 10% gross weight and a slower power pull. So after looking at the 737-800 text book procedure, I watched a few videos. Take a look at the video posted by tony. You will notice that when on the 3 degree glide path, he averaged a attitude of 2.5 at 600fpm. That's what I would expect to see on a 3 degree. You will notice that once close in, He lowered the nose a couple of times to transition to his target touchdown point. After the final aim point adjustment he initiated the flared and pitched toward 4.5. Lol, 4.5 was the attitude of a DC-10-30 with normal landing flaps on a 3 degree path. As you can tell I loved that jet(big sexy) . His procedure fits right with the training manual procedure. Charts= 2-4 on approach, he had 2.5. 4-7 at touchdown and he had 4.5. This was the same for the majority of the videos I checked. So I tested those procedures against the PMDG 737. I set up the aircraft to be at 140k. The first app was a visual. I was curious so I flew it at ref(146). On the glide path, I had a attitude around 1.8. I started my flare at the 30ft call out. I pitched up to about 3 degrees. The aircraft touched down at 134kts 3500ft down with a pitch around 3 degrees. I shot the approach again and started my flare a moment after the 20ft call out. I touched down at 138kts 1700ft down with a pitch of 1.5. By this time the jet was a few thousand pounds light and the vref was 142. I decided to perform an auto land to see what George would do. On approach I dialed in 142. Once configured and on the slope I had about 1.6 on app and a sink of 600fpm. George put her down at 136kts attitude of 2.0 3000ft down. All of my landings were accomplished at flaps 30. I still believe that she has a little bit of lift. She lands like a G-5/550. Going from DC-10s to G-5s was interesting. It was unnerving watching the ground rush up and starting the flare inside of 20ft. Needless to say I floated a lot during training. You have to pull to idle at 100ft and start the flare inside of 20. Otherwise you float 2000 to 3000 down. Now days I laugh at new guys on their first training flight as they become the floater. At least the 5 and 550 have a big wing. It loves ground effect. That's why I personally treat the PMDG jet like a 550. I pull power at 100ft and start my flare by the 20ft call out and the jet touches down at the advertised attitude smoothly 3 seconds after I start. This is an excellent product and I love it. I just feel that the wing lift and idle thrust may be a tad bit high. My cfg may be corrupted, so could you guys post some of your speeds and attitudes at touch down?

[clum 2]

My eyes just exploded

[masneoquil 66]

My eyes just exploded

[cmpbellsjc 2,963]

My eyes just exploded

Mine too, lol. I was going to quote it and format it into paragraphs or put some spacing to make it easier to read.

[stefltt 11]

This is what you can find in the FCTM :

When the threshold passes under the airplane nose and out of sight, shift the visualsighting point to the far end of the runway. Shifting the visual sighting point assistsin controlling the pitch attitude during the flare. Maintaining a constant airspeedand descent rate assists in determining the flare point. Initiate the flare when themain gear is approximately 20 feet above the runway by increasing pitch attitudeapproximately 2° - 3°. This slows the rate of descent.After the flare is initiated, smoothly retard the thrust levers to idle, and make smallpitch attitude adjustments to maintain the desired descent rate to the runway. Asmooth thrust reduction to idle also assists in controlling the natural nose-downpitch change associated with thrust reduction. Hold sufficient back pressure on thecontrol column to keep the pitch attitude constant. A touchdown attitude asdepicted in the figure below is normal with an airspeed of approximately VREFplus any gust correction. Ideally, main gear touchdown should occursimultaneously with thrust levers reaching idle. Avoid rapid control column movements during the flare. If the flare is too abruptand thrust is excessive near touchdown, the airplane tends to float in ground effect.Do not allow the airplane to float or attempt to hold it off. Fly the airplane onto therunway at the desired touchdown point and at the desired airspeed.Note: Do not trim during the flare. Trimming in the flare increases the possibilityof a tail strike.Prolonged flare increases airplane pitch attitude 2° to 3°. When prolonged flare iscoupled with a misjudged height above the runway, a tail strike is possible. Do notprolong the flare in an attempt to achieve a perfectly smooth touchdown. Asmooth touchdown is not the criterion for a safe landing.Typically, the pitch attitude increases slightly during the actual landing, but avoidover-rotating. Do not increase the pitch attitude, trim, or hold the nose wheel offthe runway after landing. This could lead to a tail strike. Airspeed ControlDuring an autoland, the autothrottle retards the thrust so as to reach idle attouchdown. The 5 knot additive is bled off during the flare.If the autothrottle is disengaged, or is planned to be disengaged prior to landing,maintain VREF plus the wind additive until approaching the flare. The steadyheadwind additive is bled off before touchdown while the gust correction ismaintained to touchdown. Plan to touchdown at VREF plus the gust correction.With proper airspeed control and thrust management, touchdown should occur atno less than VREF - 5 knots. Flare and Touchdown using HUD SystemFor airplanes equipped with HUD, flare guidance is provided in the AIII mode.Follow the guidance cue and perform the flare and landing using HUD guidanceand visual cues. Monitor the roll out annunciation (as installed) and transition torollout guidance. Use normal procedures to decelerate to taxi speed.