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MichiMaster11

Shader 3.0 and REX

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Hello! I just tested the new shader 3.0 with REX and made bad experiences sad.png Look at the images attached. The Water reflection with shader and a rex theme installed looks very bright and with a low resolution.Is this correct? What experiences with shader 3.0 and REX did you make? Can you post pictures please. What are the pros and cons of shader 3.0 wih REX? best regards (pictures: 1st: with shader, 2nd: without and only REX)

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I'm afraid I can't help, but I'm having the same issue. I can't seem to get the water to look quite right, compared to REX. Even with modification to the waterconstants file (specular boost, time scale, etc), it's not the same. I'm thinking that might just be a sacrifice to getting improved performance. Anyone have some suggestions for waterconstants changes that get that REX look? Thanks. --Don

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Try this (be sure to flush the cache or delete the shader directory): <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><SimBase.Document Type="WaterConstantFile" version="1,0"><Descr>AceXML Document</Descr><WaterConsts.ConstantSets><ConstantSet><Shader20><fWaveFresnelFactorMin>0.475</fWaveFresnelFactorMin><fWaveFresnelFactorMax>0.588</fWaveFresnelFactorMax><fSpecularPower>53.384</fSpecularPower><fSpecularBoost>1.460</fSpecularBoost><fSpecularBlend>0.605</fSpecularBlend><fWaveBumpUVScale>9.500</fWaveBumpUVScale><fWaterBumpRotation>225.000</fWaterBumpRotation><fTimeX1>-1.283</fTimeX1><fTimeY1>1.004</fTimeY1><fTimeX2>-1.423</fTimeX2><fTimeY2>1.838</fTimeY2><fTimeScale2>-0.002</fTimeScale2></Shader20><Shader30></Shader30><Wave></Wave><Shader40WaterClassSet><Shader40><fWaveFresnelFactorMin>0.000</fWaveFresnelFactorMin><fWaveFresnelFactorMax>1.000</fWaveFresnelFactorMax><fSpecularPower>53.384</fSpecularPower><fSpecularBoost>1.005</fSpecularBoost><fSpecularBlend>0.605</fSpecularBlend><fWhiteCapPower>0.844</fWhiteCapPower><fWaveBumpUVScale1>3.847</fWaveBumpUVScale1><fWaveBumpUVScale2>3.563</fWaveBumpUVScale2><fWaveBumpUVScale3>1.822</fWaveBumpUVScale3><fWaveBumpUVScaleDetail>4.217</fWaveBumpUVScaleDetail><fWaterBumpRotation1>141.516</fWaterBumpRotation1><fWaterBumpRotation2>331.488</fWaterBumpRotation2><fWaterBumpRotation3>62.388</fWaterBumpRotation3><fWaterBumpBlend1>0.757</fWaterBumpBlend1><fWaterBumpBlend2>0.751</fWaterBumpBlend2><fWaterBumpBlend3>0.567</fWaterBumpBlend3><fWaterBumpBlendDetail>0.616</fWaterBumpBlendDetail><fWaterBumpWind3>0.599</fWaterBumpWind3><fWaterBumpWindDetail>0.497</fWaterBumpWindDetail><fTimeX1>-1.283</fTimeX1><fTimeX2>-1.423</fTimeX2><fTimeX3>1.074</fTimeX3><fTimeXDetail>-2.882</fTimeXDetail><fTimeY1>1.004</fTimeY1><fTimeY2>1.838</fTimeY2><fTimeY3>-0.036</fTimeY3><fTimeYDetail>2.740</fTimeYDetail></Shader40></Shader40WaterClassSet></ConstantSet><ConstantSet><Elevation>MID</Elevation><Shader20><fWaveFresnelFactorMin>0.475</fWaveFresnelFactorMin><fWaveFresnelFactorMax>0.588</fWaveFresnelFactorMax><fSpecularPower>53.384</fSpecularPower><fSpecularBoost>1.460</fSpecularBoost><fSpecularBlend>0.619</fSpecularBlend><fWaveBumpUVScale>6.500</fWaveBumpUVScale><fWaterBumpRotation>225.000</fWaterBumpRotation><fTimeX1>-1.283</fTimeX1><fTimeY1>1.004</fTimeY1><fTimeX2>-1.423</fTimeX2><fTimeY2>1.838</fTimeY2><fTimeScale2>-0.002</fTimeScale2></Shader20><Shader30></Shader30><Wave></Wave><Shader40WaterClassSet><Shader40><fWaveFresnelFactorMin>0.000</fWaveFresnelFactorMin><fWaveFresnelFactorMax>1.000</fWaveFresnelFactorMax><fSpecularPower>69.513</fSpecularPower><fSpecularBoost>1.004</fSpecularBoost><fSpecularBlend>0.719</fSpecularBlend><fWhiteCapPower>0.838</fWhiteCapPower><fWaveBumpUVScale1>2.405</fWaveBumpUVScale1><fWaveBumpUVScale2>2.405</fWaveBumpUVScale2><fWaveBumpUVScale3>1.352</fWaveBumpUVScale3><fWaveBumpUVScaleDetail>16.527</fWaveBumpUVScaleDetail><fWaterBumpRotation1>141.516</fWaterBumpRotation1><fWaterBumpRotation2>330.804</fWaterBumpRotation2><fWaterBumpRotation3>62.388</fWaterBumpRotation3><fWaterBumpRotationDetail>156.024</fWaterBumpRotationDetail><fWaterBumpBlend1>0.751</fWaterBumpBlend1><fWaterBumpBlend2>0.746</fWaterBumpBlend2><fWaterBumpBlend3>0.723</fWaterBumpBlend3><fWaterBumpBlendDetail>0.000</fWaterBumpBlendDetail><fWaterBumpWind3>0.595</fWaterBumpWind3><fWaterBumpWindDetail>0.000</fWaterBumpWindDetail><fTimeX1>-0.869</fTimeX1><fTimeX2>-1.006</fTimeX2><fTimeX3>0.727</fTimeX3><fTimeXDetail>0.659</fTimeXDetail><fTimeY1>0.727</fTimeY1><fTimeY2>1.214</fTimeY2><fTimeY3>-0.036</fTimeY3><fTimeYDetail>-2.185</fTimeYDetail></Shader40></Shader40WaterClassSet></ConstantSet><ConstantSet><Elevation>HIGH</Elevation><Shader20><fWaveFresnelFactorMin>0.475</fWaveFresnelFactorMin><fWaveFresnelFactorMax>0.588</fWaveFresnelFactorMax><fSpecularPower>53.384</fSpecularPower><fSpecularBoost>1.450</fSpecularBoost><fSpecularBlend>0.619</fSpecularBlend><fWaveBumpUVScale>4.500</fWaveBumpUVScale><fWaterBumpRotation>225.000</fWaterBumpRotation><fTimeX1>-1.283</fTimeX1><fTimeY1>1.004</fTimeY1><fTimeX2>-1.423</fTimeX2><fTimeY2>1.838</fTimeY2><fTimeScale2>-0.001</fTimeScale2></Shader20><Shader30></Shader30><Wave></Wave><Shader40WaterClassSet><Shader40><fWaveFresnelFactorMin>0.000</fWaveFresnelFactorMin><fWaveFresnelFactorMax>1.000</fWaveFresnelFactorMax><fSpecularPower>69.513</fSpecularPower><fSpecularBoost>1.004</fSpecularBoost><fSpecularBlend>0.719</fSpecularBlend><fWhiteCapPower>0.844</fWhiteCapPower><fWaveBumpUVScale1>1.248</fWaveBumpUVScale1><fWaveBumpUVScale2>1.248</fWaveBumpUVScale2><fWaveBumpUVScale3>0.674</fWaveBumpUVScale3><fWaveBumpUVScaleDetail>0.100</fWaveBumpUVScaleDetail><fWaterBumpRotation1>141.516</fWaterBumpRotation1><fWaterBumpRotation2>328.752</fWaterBumpRotation2><fWaterBumpRotation3>62.388</fWaterBumpRotation3><fWaterBumpRotationDetail>0.000</fWaterBumpRotationDetail><fWaterBumpBlend1>0.746</fWaterBumpBlend1><fWaterBumpBlend2>0.746</fWaterBumpBlend2><fWaterBumpBlend3>0.682</fWaterBumpBlend3><fWaterBumpBlendDetail>0.000</fWaterBumpBlendDetail><fWaterBumpWind3>0.595</fWaterBumpWind3><fWaterBumpWindDetail>0.023</fWaterBumpWindDetail><fTimeX1>-0.728</fTimeX1><fTimeX2>-0.798</fTimeX2><fTimeX3>0.589</fTimeX3><fTimeXDetail>-1.000</fTimeXDetail><fTimeY1>0.312</fTimeY1><fTimeY2>0.935</fTimeY2><fTimeY3>-0.036</fTimeY3><fTimeYDetail>1.000</fTimeYDetail></Shader40></Shader40WaterClassSet></ConstantSet></WaterConsts.ConstantSets></SimBase.Document> Randall

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This is the WaterConstants file and is in your FSX directory. It is an XML file. Thanks Randall, I will try it. --Don

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Randall - I tried your settings....Applause.gif ...I just flew up the east coast of Florida at 8000 feet. A bit cloudy w/ some Tstorms, but the water sure looked nice! Thanks. --Don

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Well, before you removed it, it was "flush_cache.vbs", inside the "Shader 3 Mod for Flight Simulator X" folder in the root of your FSX folder. Reinstall it, open it, see what's there. I just make a shortcut to it, running it after I make any change to the WaterConstants.xml.

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If you pop over to the FTX/OrbX forum - Tips & Tricks - there's a similar thread happening, and I've put a REX setup and WaterConstants.xml file which were created by a couple of Avsim members for use with the Shaders3 mod. It works and looks very good from any height. or.. you can download them from here:- http://www.mediafire.com/?8n9ttf59zwzzv

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Let me qualify my previous post. That waterconstants file I got from another thread somewhere here at AVSIM. I tried to find it or remember who came up with it but I couldn't recall. I was just passing it along. It sure worked for me. Randall

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Thanks for sharing the constraints settings. I believe this has made a suitable change to my depiction of water reflection in FSX with Shader 3.0, but it's still not as nice as my pre shader 3.0 water. I still have the blotchy, very white low res reflections on the water, but I'm afraid this is something I may have to accept as a tradeoff for better performance. But is there really better performance with this mod for Nvidia cards? I can't really perceive any fps improvement, only a slight downgrade in image quality. I hope this is not placebo, as I may just be better off removing shader 3.0 if I'm not getting any performance gain. From what I have gathered on Avsim, including Bojote's own words, this is mainly a tweak that benefits ATI users........am I correct in thinking so?

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I actually went back and have better performance and visuals with my Geforce 460.

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Randall - do You mean going back to original shader ? I had the same issue - drastically deteriorated quality of water vs original state after installing shaders 3 (having REX) - exactly the same as mentioned in the beginning by MichiMaster11 - so I removed shader 3.0, went back to original waterconstants file, flushed cache etc. so I did all steps back and ...what a surprise ! - I still have these very bright and with a low resolution waters, maybe not exactly the same as with shader 3, but this low resolution (in low 3-4k ft flight) somehow stayed and is really annoying, because I like low & slow flying especially over coast areas... checked fsx.cfg if some Bojote's suggested lines are not left, but now have no idea what is still wrong...

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I wanted certain aspects of the shader mod [clouds for an ATI card], but also wanted to be able to use FSWC... so I install the SM3 mod, then before running FSX a use the back-up it creates to restore all the water related files, so I now have the SM3 mod without adapting the water.

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Kaigun,Yes, sorry for the vague post. I deleted the shader mod and went back to the original. I kept the waterconstants file (by WallyDog!). Things look better and it seems I'm getting better performance, certainly no worse. I have REX and everything went back to high resolution when I deleted the mod.

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I wanted certain aspects of the shader mod [clouds for an ATI card], but also wanted to be able to use FSWC... so I install the SM3 mod, then before running FSX a use the back-up it creates to restore all the water related files, so I now have the SM3 mod without adapting the water.
Hi guys, can you explain how I can use the shader 3 mod and return the water aspect to pre shader 3, could you please list the folders and files you changed back to keep the pre shader three, or better still can someone such as randall list the steps you took to keep the shader 3 stuff but returned the water to pre shader 3? I am having the same issues and would like the shader 3 mod stuff but I want to go back to the pre shader 3 in regards to water......many thanks in advance

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Delete the Shaders directory. In WinXP it's located here: C:\Documents and Settings\User\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\FSX\Shaders When FSX starts it will rebuild that directory. I'm using WallyDog's waterconstants file which is duplicated in post #4 above. Randall

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Delete the Shaders directory. In WinXP it's located here: C:\Documents and Settings\User\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\FSX\Shaders When FSX starts it will rebuild that directory. I'm using WallyDog's waterconstants file which is duplicated in post #4 above. Randall
Hi Randall, many thanks for your reply, I have one question though....isn't that deleting Bojotes Shader 3 Mod? or the sahder directory you mentioned only affects the water? Are you still using the shader 3 mod and the directory above you mentioned just changes the water back to the original? I am asking this because I am not sure if you have fully reverted back to default before the shader 3 mod, or this change only affects the water. Have you reverted fully back or just the water part, as I want the shader 3 mod but the original water, sorry I hope that wans't confusing Many thanks Randall for a reply to confim my questions.......cheers

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After installing Shader3 mod I opened the back-up it created named 'ShadersHLSL Original' which is in your main FSX directory, and then opened the 'Terrain' folder and copied everything relating to water back into the 'ShadersHLSL' which was around 30 files... now whether I needed to copy all these back I don't know, almost certainly not; perhaps ******* could explain which files will allow FSWC and REX to function normally with changes to water. All the other files changed by the SM3 mod remain the same, so I assume I may be getting some benefit from using it, if there is any to be had

Hi guys, can you explain how I can use the shader 3 mod and return the water aspect to pre shader 3, could you please list the folders and files you changed back to keep the pre shader three, or better still can someone such as randall list the steps you took to keep the shader 3 stuff but returned the water to pre shader 3? I am having the same issues and would like the shader 3 mod stuff but I want to go back to the pre shader 3 in regards to water......many thanks in advance

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I spent a ridiculous amount of time yesterday trying to match the pre shader 3.0 water quality using the shader 3.0 mod but finally couldn't. After many edits of the shader 3.0 WaterConstants.xml I learned how to control water reflectivity from various angles and altitudes, wave width, specular reflection intensity, wave direction, BUT when I finally changed to the original shaders the water was much more natural and smooth, especially with my custom FSWC settings. I couldn't get rid of the high contrast, low resolution specular reflections. The size of the reflective waves is controlled by the fWaveBumpUVScale. My last test is to enter a very high number here and check the result, something like 12.500 or 14.000. What I couldn't find is how to control the contrast between the dark and light parts of the specular reflections. This is very important to 'smooth out' the sun reflections and have a more natural looking water. Of course now that I own a Nvidia card I can't observe any performance benefit from using the shader 3.0 mod, but I would use it if it looked just as good as the original shaders.

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Ok, the ultimate water performance test for the different shader models: Go to the PABE airport (with hundreds of small lakes around) and take off with a light (performance-wise) plane, pause at say 2000ft, pan around from an external camera and, with "water effects" at High 2x (or any 2x), check the fps and the panning smoothness. Then go to FSX settings, set "water effects" to 'High 1x' and check again. Shocked.gif Then install the other shaders and repeat. For my setup (nvidia 560ti) the shader 3.0 mod gave me 13-17 fps and the original shaders gave 16-22 fps in the same situation and better water looks. At 'High 1x' I was always getting my internally locked 30 fps... Weather was overcast (ASE).

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Of course now that I own a Nvidia card I can't observe any performance benefit from using the shader 3.0 mod, but I would use it if it looked just as good as the original shaders.
I'm pretty convinced at this point now that Shader 3.0 is really only a benefit for ATI users. From what I have gathered, it offers much better FPS for cloud and water depiction vs the standard shader for ATI cards. But if you have an Nvidia card, you get negligible performance gain (if any), AND worse looking water. By worse I don't mean to say its downright ugly, but its a step down from the IQ of default or FSWC water, especially those low res white blobs that are supposed to be water reflections. Up to this point, I tolerated the image downgrade because I felt that maybe I was gaining FPS, but I think that was the wrong assumption. I'm going back to FSWC shader 2.0, the way I now see it, for Nvidia users it's "move along, nothing to see here" Whistle.gif

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