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dskviator

LNAV chasing at Cruise Wind>30kts

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I apologize if this has been brought up earlier, but with 100s of topics in the last few days, I have been only following a few. I have had this problem at cruise where the acft will make wide turns to the left and right. Even limiting bank angles to 10 did not help. Switching to heading hold also did not help. All this happened when the wind touched 30 kts. I use registered version of FSUIPC and ASE and I have done recommended settings for Wind smoothing etc. I also use FSInn with weather disabled in it and ASE controls the weather with VATSIM Online option. To confirm what I was seeing, I 'Disabled Winds Aloft' and as soon as the wind dropped below 29 the acft straightened up. I enabled it and as the wind touched 30 kts, it did it again. Repeated it a few times and was able to reproduce the effect. I have had similar problems elsewhere too, but in those cases I wasn't paying attn, but yesterday it just caught my eye. Anybody else notice this? I am not near my computer now, so I can't remember all my ASE/FSUIPC settings, but would be glad to post info later in the evening PDT if anything specific is reqd. Cheers!!

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FSX is notoriously not fond of winds aloft. I used to get major headaches in the 767. I think that's partly why PMDG did not model any weather radar.

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I had exactly the same problems, it appeared to be something to do with FSUIPC.dll. You could try deleting FSUIPC.ini and then starting again. (this is mentioned in the NGX manual) you could also try re-installing FSUIPC and disabling the additional weather functions. Whilst not totally illuminating the problem, this did appear to help.

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In FSUIPC, make sure you enable "Wind Smoothing" and check the box next to "turbulence" to supress the effect. If that still doesn't work, ceck the other two boxe supressing "gusts" and "variance". Always works.

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FSX is notoriously not fond of winds aloft. I used to get major headaches in the 767. I think that's partly why PMDG did not model any weather radar.
Winds aloft has nothing to do with the issues modelling weather radar. The way FSX handles (or doesn't rather) precipitation modelling is the root reason.

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This is turning into a real problem for me.....it appears not to be related to time acceleration as yesterday the issue came back worse than ever. The NGX ended up turning 90 degrees ether side of track and I had to disable the AP. I haven't seen this issue so bad on ANY other addon including the whole stable of PMDG aircraft. Interestingly, removing ALL weather and re-setting the AP seems to help, but this is not a real option. It looks like some kind off over sensitivity in the AP algorithms and/or a problem with handling real world weather.

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Root reason eh? That's why I used the word partly?
Perception modeling mentioned as root reason - winds aloft not even involved, probably not even semi-partly.

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Ah finally someone with the same problem. I also have this issue sometimes, happened twice counting only yesterday. Also using FSUIPC and ASE for the weather. The airplane just goes turning like it has gone insane. Bank angle goes up to 90 degrees and even made a 180 turn yesterday. Switching to heading mode does not change anything, only way to resolve is to disconnect autopilot.

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This is turning into a real problem for me.....it appears not to be related to time acceleration as yesterday the issue came back worse than ever. The NGX ended up turning 90 degrees ether side of track and I had to disable the AP. I haven't seen this issue so bad on ANY other addon including the whole stable of PMDG aircraft. Interestingly, removing ALL weather and re-setting the AP seems to help, but this is not a real option. It looks like some kind off over sensitivity in the AP algorithms and/or a problem with handling real world weather.
Ticket raised: 0C9-15DD14F3-66C6

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I apologize if this has been brought up earlier, but with 100s of topics in the last few days, I have been only following a few. I have had this problem at cruise where the acft will make wide turns to the left and right. Even limiting bank angles to 10 did not help. Switching to heading hold also did not help. All this happened when the wind touched 30 kts. I use registered version of FSUIPC and ASE and I have done recommended settings for Wind smoothing etc. I also use FSInn with weather disabled in it and ASE controls the weather with VATSIM Online option. To confirm what I was seeing, I 'Disabled Winds Aloft' and as soon as the wind dropped below 29 the acft straightened up. I enabled it and as the wind touched 30 kts, it did it again. Repeated it a few times and was able to reproduce the effect. I have had similar problems elsewhere too, but in those cases I wasn't paying attn, but yesterday it just caught my eye. Anybody else notice this? I am not near my computer now, so I can't remember all my ASE/FSUIPC settings, but would be glad to post info later in the evening PDT if anything specific is reqd. Cheers!!
Charan : LNAV does not really care about your winds aloft. All it cares is your true track (not true or mag heading but true track). By the term chasing I suspect you mean changing course. That would be a result of violent wind shifts. Use smoothing. This not an NGx problem but a common issue. Compared to previous PMDG planes the NGx has two LNAV modes : capturing and on course. In the latter case the system relaxes considerably the gains. Note that a wind shift of 20 knots in half a second would result in a heck of a wind shear situation in real life. Sustained wind gradients of this magnitude would break a plane. At altitude even worse. General Advice to All concerned: I understand from many comments in the forum that a lot of people writing here and posting issues comprise a new generation of simmers (welcome aboard) that never flew enough the old NG or the 74 or the MD. For a few folk this is their first complex add on. A lot of weather related issues reported are with us the last 10 years or more. To a very large extent FSX is still FS98 in a lot of areas (or even older). While a few of the answers provided are useful I suggest some googling and search. Something useful will surely come up (e.g. how to smooth). Check out also Pete Dowson's and ASE's forum (if you use these products) there is a lot of specific info there regarding weather that would take pages to copy. We cannot provide supports for 10 different add on's from 10 different vendors in the final analysis. Note that despite considerable experience I do the same from time to time because it is always useful to check out new ideas.

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Charan : LNAV does not really care about your winds aloft. All it cares is your true track (not true or mag heading but true track). By the term chasing I suspect you mean changing course. That would be a result of violent wind shifts. Use smoothing. This not an NGx problem but a common issue. Compared to previous PMDG planes the NGx has two LNAV modes : capturing and on course. In the latter case the system relaxes considerably the gains. Note that a wind shift of 20 knots in half a second would result in a heck of a wind shear situation in real life. Sustained wind gradients of this magnitude would break a plane. At altitude even worse. General Advice to All concerned: I understand from many comments in the forum that a lot of people writing here and posting issues comprise a new generation of simmers (welcome aboard) that never flew enough the old NG or the 74 or the MD. For a few folk this is their first complex add on. A lot of weather related issues reported are with us the last 10 years or more. To a very large extent FSX is still FS98 in a lot of areas (or even older). While a few of the answers provided are useful I suggest some googling and search. Something useful will surely come up (e.g. how to smooth). Check out also Pete Dowson's and ASE's forum (if you use these products) there is a lot of specific info there regarding weather that would take pages to copy. We cannot provide supports for 10 different add on's from 10 different vendors in the final analysis. Note that despite considerable experience I do the same from time to time because it is always useful to check out new ideas.
Firstly thanks for your input, it's appreciated. In my humble opinion this is not just a winds issue. I am seeing the same behavior without violent wind shifts. In fact I've noticed it with wind shifts below 5 degrees of less than 5 knots which would not be unusual in real life. I have extensive sim experience and have never seen this in 20 years on any add-on aircraft in similar circumstances. I don't believe the severity of the issue is common because as I've said, I've never seen it this extreme before on any other aircraft. I'll attempt to nail down the variables over the next few days and post some videos. I'll concentrate on various weather configurations and FSUIPC configurations. Also running comparisons with PMDG MD11 and 747X may be useful.

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I also checked winds when it happened and if there were any extensive shifts or gusts I would have definitely noticed them. Will install some video recording program and try to make a recording next time it occurs. It is very well possible that it has something to do with specific settings in ASE but then it would be nice to find out which one :)

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Thank you for reply Dr. Vaos. NGX certainly raised the bar for FSX and sim in general and casual armchair simmers like me have a rude awakening of having to plan our flights more carefully now, not that I am complaining LOL.gif FWIW, I have made a few changes since then and yesterday when flying the COA 739 from EWR-SXM I had crosswinds at 50kts but the acft held on to the magenta line, no swinging, no swaying. I checked ASE and Disable Winds Aloft was disabled (obviously). I had FSInn open but was not connected to VATSIM, which was the case in all other situations when the course changes were happening (did I forget to mention that...Doh.gif), but my FSInn weather is off and weather is/was controlled by ASE/FSUIPC and wind smoothing was definitely enabled, including changes to wind restricted to 1 deg per 2 seconds (or something of that sort). So, the changes: Backup and Delete my FSUIPC.ini and let it rebuild (not so easy as it destroyed all my other custom settings for other acft, now I either gotta rebuild or use different .ini files). The only option that is enabled in FSUIPC is supress turbulences, but even without that the acft was on track. The weather settings in the FSUIPC were recommended from another sim product (which flew way higher than the current airliners and faster if I may say so), so I will have to go back and see how it affects that product. But before the NGX, the PMDG 747X did not have any problems with the same settings and neither did any of the other magenta line following payware products. And I haven't had time to apply the latest mandatory hotfix yet, since I haven't had any other problem and this one seems resolved, I haven't ventured into it. If I find out anything more in specific, I will be sure to post an update here.

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I don't have ASE or FSInn installed. So my only conclusion so far is it isn't related to any of these addons. My next step is to download real weather without winds aloft data and see if that effects things.

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did some further investigation tonight....

  • FSUIPC disable all weather and all settings in between has no effect on the issue
  • Clear all weather (static) in FSX weather options results in the problem going away
  • Real world weather and static weather themes apart from those with absolutely no wind has no effect on the issue

After turning FSUIPC logging on and logging all params, I'm seeing a strange keypress for the NGX. This key press is not present for any ather PMDG addon(ive logged them all) This could be a clue or be totally irrelevant, not sure: [Continuation log requested by user]Running inside FSX on Windows 7 (using SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07)Module base=61000000Wind smoothing fix is fully installed 409097 System time = 17/08/2011 21:10:52, Simulator time = 21:07:38 (19:07Z) 409097 LogOptions changed, now F0000000 0000001F 410704 Ready Flags: Ready-To-Fly=Y, In Menu=N, In Dlg=N 410782 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 410782 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 410875 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 410875 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 410953 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 410953 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411031 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411031 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411109 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411109 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411187 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411187 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411281 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411281 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411359 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411359 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411452 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411452 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411530 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411530 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411608 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411608 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411686 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411686 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411764 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411764 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411842 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411842 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411920 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411920 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66377 (0x00010349), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_RECOGNITION_LIGHTS 411998 Weather Read request (Nr Station) to area 5: Lat=48.35, Lon=11.78, Alt=0.0, Req=1 411998 Weather Received (type 5 request, Nearest): "EDDM&A453 091547Z 13803KT&D222NG 23206KT&A461NG 24309KT&A1375NG 27615KT&A2290LG 28621KT&A3204LG 29031KT&A5033NG 29340KT&A6862LG 29153KT&A8691LG 29265KT&A9910LG 29466KT&A11434NG 100KM&B-1953&D2451 3CU020&CU001FMMN000N 6CU035&CU001FMMN000N 21/15 14/06&A461 12/01&A1375 06/-2&A2290 01/-14&A3204 -11/-24&A5033 -23/-31&A6862 -37/-50&A8691 -45/-55&A9910 -53/-62&A11434 Q1018 @@@ 30 14 232 6 | 60 12 243 9 | 90 6 276 15 | 120 1 286 21 | 180 -11 290 31 | 240 -23 293 40 | 300 -37 291 53 | 340 -45 292 65 | 390 -53 294 66 | " 411998 WX Received in 0 mSecs, WX request type 5, Lat=48.3537, Lon=11.7829, Alt=0.0m 411998 >Change: Pressure=1018.0 mb

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This issue has been around for a long time now. It happens because of the unrealistic way FSX depicts Turbulence (Poorly Coded in FSX). It is often referred to as S-Turning or Auto Pilot Nav Hunting. The following settings below were recommended by Hi-Fi Simulations (Activesky) to combat the S-Turning and Auto-Pilot hunting issue with PMDG Planes. It will also prevent the Severe Wind change issue that causes the PMDG plane to suddenly Over Speed and Crash due to Excessive Forces on the aircraft. Even if you do not have Activesky these settings are still recommended to Smooth the Wind issues in FSX. Edit your FSX.CFG file and remove the current line in there and replace it with the one below TurbulenceScale=0.500000 Edit your FSUIPC.CFG file and remove the 2 lines in there and replace them with the ones below. TurbulenceRate=0.5,2.5TurbulenceDivisor=40,40,80,80 Now Load up FSX and go into FSUIPC and Change the Values in the Winds and Clouds TABs to match the images below. I have also tried the values of 1 and 1 instead of 3 and 2. When you get some heavy winds it will let you bounce around a little more and feels more realistic scaled.php?server=825&filename=fsuipcwinds.gif&res=mediumscaled.php?server=801&filename=fsuipcclouds.gif&res=medium Go to FSX Display Settings, Weather Tab. Disregard the top part of this image. Those settings can be whatever you like. The part we are focusing on is the 2 Boxes at the bottom. The most IMPORTANT one is the Disable Turubulence and Thermal Effects on Aircraft. If this Box is NOT Checked your going to keep on experiencing the S-Turn Effect. Do note that if you change anything in here at a later point in time those boxes uncheck themselves. So it is a good idea to make sure they are checked before you takeoff. scaled.php?server=718&filename=fsxweather.gif&res=medium Finally if your using Activesky Evolution like I am. Use Direct Weather Control and Set your Dynamic Rate of Change to 0. (Your weather will still update and change) This setting is recommended by Hi-Fi and works well.

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This issue has been around for a long time now. It happens because of the unrealistic way FSX depicts Turbulence (Poorly Coded in FSX). It is often referred to as S-Turning or Auto Pilot Nav Hunting. The following settings below were recommended by Hi-Fi Simulations (Activesky) to combat the S-Turning and Auto-Pilot hunting issue with PMDG Planes. It will also prevent the Severe Wind change issue that causes the PMDG plane to suddenly Over Speed and Crash due to Excessive Forces on the aircraft. Even if you do not have Activesky these settings are still recommended to Smooth the Wind issues in FSX. Edit your FSX.CFG file and remove the current line in there and replace it with the one below TurbulenceScale=0.500000 Edit your FSUIPC.CFG file and remove the 2 lines in there and replace them with the ones below. TurbulenceRate=0.5,2.5TurbulenceDivisor=40,40,80,80 Now Load up FSX and go into FSUIPC and Change the Values in the Winds and Clouds TABs to match the images below. I have also tried the values of 1 and 1 instead of 3 and 2. When you get some heavy winds it will let you bounce around a little more and feels more realistic scaled.php?server=825&filename=fsuipcwinds.gif&res=mediumscaled.php?server=801&filename=fsuipcclouds.gif&res=medium Go to FSX Display Settings, Weather Tab. Disregard the top part of this image. Those settings can be whatever you like. The part we are focusing on is the 2 Boxes at the bottom. The most IMPORTANT one is the Disable Turubulence and Thermal Effects on Aircraft. If this Box is NOT Checked your going to keep on experiencing the S-Turn Effect. Do note that if you change anything in here at a later point in time those boxes uncheck themselves. So it is a good idea to make sure they are checked before you takeoff. scaled.php?server=718&filename=fsxweather.gif&res=medium Finally if your using Activesky Evolution like I am. Use Direct Weather Control and Set your Dynamic Rate of Change to 0. (Your weather will still update and change) This setting is recommended by Hi-Fi and works well.
Thanks for this useful post!!! Just have made all the steps. Will test tomorrow.

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Uhm, I tried this configuration but if I select " Disable Turubulence and Thermal Effects on Aircraft" there is no more turbulence, the air is always calm, even with clouds and thunderstorm. I did several tests, both with ASE and without, I built cloud layers with heavy turbulence but experienced none. What did I do wrong?

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Fixed the S-turns problem with this guide!!! @Paul Deemer Can you create a dedicated topic with this guide? Will be good post to stay pinned!!!

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Uhm, I tried this configuration but if I select " Disable Turubulence and Thermal Effects on Aircraft" there is no more turbulence, the air is always calm, even with clouds and thunderstorm. I did several tests, both with ASE and without, I built cloud layers with heavy turbulence but experienced none. What did I do wrong?
Just a guess. You're probably not experiencing turbulence because you've disabled it.

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There's a way to get this working without disabling turbulence... I'll post something about the settings I'm using (which I got from a user here)

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