I quite like the look of the XP 10 cities. Have there been any screenshots of European cities yet? I wonder how the houses look for cities that are not arranged in rectangular blocks but have grown more organically.

A huge step forward for the autogen in X-Plane, I'm sure the rendition of cities will be very realistic thanks to Open Street Map.As has already been said, there's undoubtedly too much green in urban areas. I assume those preview shots have high settings for urban density, so probably there will be even more green at lower settings? However I think the issue should not be difficult to correct for Laminar, namely using some generic urban base textures apt for filling (concrete, sand, pavement, etc.) instead of the generic grass-ish texture.Marco

This is not correct.Overlay Editor is/was a 3rd party effort at placing scenery due to the lack of development of WED. WED (World EDitor) is the official scenery editing tool produced by Laminar and will be self-sufficient for placing scenery into xplane. Once proficient in WED, you can assemble a plausible airport with taxiways, lines, lighting, hangars, towers, aircraft vehicles, jetways, forests, trees, etc in less than an hour. WED has been on the back-burner due to V10 development, but I have been the guinea pig for it's development during the process and it is pretty darn robust. There are a few holes to clean up so there will pass some amount of time before it gets released to the public.The primary difference between WED and Overlay editor is that in Overlay Editor, you have a 3D isometric view of your 3D objects whereas in WED, it is a 2D top down view and of course WED supports the full range of x-plane features whereas Overlay editor only supports some very basic functions. Here is a screenshot of WED with the default KSEA layout in it. Creating video tutorials some time in 2012 is on my todo list.-Tom KylerdXP10 sceneryXP10 aircraft

Tom,I am very excited to use WED to create airport environments, and I have two questions:1) Will we have the ability to create airports that would rival ORBX airports in FSX? If not now, do you think this may occur in the not too distant future?2) Can a person use WED to create non-airport scenery, such as use WED to place buildings, houses, etc. in a town or city?Thanks for all of your hard work on XP10.

1) Will we have the ability to create airports that would rival ORBX airports in FSX? If not now, do you think this may occur in the not too distant future?

Hey Mike,It's probably safer to say that x-plane has the "technology" to rival ORBX airports....to about 95%.....the last 5 percent would be the lack of 'nature flow tech'...which we know how to do, it just is lower priority than a lot of other stuff....recall that laminar thinks on a global scale, so many ideas we have, when applied to the entire world do not become viable and are best left to 3rd party. WED is not some magic carpet to ORBX type work though. The biggest thing we have now besides real lights and shadows are "shaders" which adds a lot of detail to the ground textures...but using them in a custom capacity with orthophoto type ground texture is a rather technical workflow that will take some time to get documented...and even so, I expect only the most die-hard scenery developers to go through the process on a significant scale because you can't get around building the detail and all the artwork that goes with it. But yes, the ability to rival 95% ORBX does exist.WED has what are called "Exclusion zones" which are rectangles you can lay down in WED that act as "virtual erasers" for various pieces of autogen. You can set it to erase roads / objects / forests / beaches or any combination. You basically set a "flag" next to each type of autogen you want it to not draw....then you have some bare ground to place your own custom work on top of that.Tom Kyler

The biggest thing we have now besides real lights and shadows are "shaders" which adds a lot of detail to the ground textures

So, what type of detail do shaders add to ground textures?

So, what type of detail do shaders add to ground textures?

A uniform high resolution pattern....like gravel or grass. See the image below.On the left is from x-plane, on the right from ORBX. If you look at the image, you'll see the tar marks in ORBX scenery are slightly blurry and low resolution...and on top of that they've overlaid a higher resolution "gravel" texture. On the left side, from x-plane, you'll see some high resolution asphalt with a really blurry "concrete". In actuality, the "underlay" of the asphalt is equally as low resolution and blurry as the "concrete" but when you overlay the high resolution shader "decal" as we call it, you get a mix of color and noise. So these decals are suitable for uniform "noise" to be added to a base underlying texture. If you examine a few more ORBX scenery, you'll note the lower resolution "blurry" image under the high rez detail. The below image shows the high res shader applied to the blurry concrete below.for lines and such that go on top of this work...like road stripes, then you will need those to be of a sufficient high resolution to "match" the detail shader below....depending on how detailed you want to get. It is always a trade off between detail and performance....and getting the most bang for the buck is the challenge.

Tom,Good explanation. What is involved in placing shaders on top of the base textures. Is that something that is "click, drag, and place" within WED or something much more complex, that would be accomplished outside of WED?

something much more complex, that would be accomplished outside of WED?

Unfortunately, much more complex outside of WED Mike, especially if you're looking to have shader detail over an orthophoto...which is why I say x-plane supports it, but not likely the casual scenery author will dig too deep into it. Any custom work, even at a generic level would require some hand creation and editing of some text files. Basically anyone wanting to do orbx type work will need to get into it though and the documentation isn't even well organized quite yet. so that's why I say x-plane has the technology to do it, but implementing it, especially on a larger scale is a whole other challenge. Much later in 2012, after x-plane settles in, I'm looking at some options to provide some training and examples for users.

That is fantastic news. Be nice to be trained, and hopefully like minded users could band together and do specific tasks. I am a visual / audio learner vs reading. Thus training video's would be a valuable learning tool. Team A airports, B. Small bush strips and camps etc. etc. This is something that interest me but 2 hurtles I face. 1. Learning curve 2. The ease of the task. If the adding of improvements are not requiring a PHD in scenery art, and results seen in somewhat a reasonable time, I would gladly invest time in a X project. My first impressions of X-10, an excellent canvas with great potential and future. Lots to talk about.

Unfortunately, much more complex outside of WED Mike, especially if you're looking to have shader detail over an orthophoto...which is why I say x-plane supports it, but not likely the casual scenery author will dig too deep into it. Any custom work, even at a generic level would require some hand creation and editing of some text files. Basically anyone wanting to do orbx type work will need to get into it though and the documentation isn't even well organized quite yet. so that's why I say x-plane has the technology to do it, but implementing it, especially on a larger scale is a whole other challenge. Much later in 2012, after x-plane settles in, I'm looking at some options to provide some training and examples for users.

Thanks for clarifying WED & OE Tom, I wasn't sure about them, I must have mis-read that somewhere.Looking forward to doing some training in the future!

a fascinating discussion, guys!!!!

That is fantastic news. Be nice to be trained, and hopefully like minded users could band together and do specific tasks. I am a visual / audio learner vs reading. Thus training video's would be a valuable learning tool.  Team A airports, B. Small bush strips and camps etc. etc. This is something that interest me but 2 hurtles I face. 1. Learning curve 2. The ease of the task. If the adding of improvements are not requiring a PHD in scenery art, and results seen in somewhat a reasonable time, I would gladly invest time in a X project. My first impressions of X-10, an excellent canvas with great potential and future. Lots to talk about. 

Drums, check out our blog and search for the 'simmo's scenery adventures', here I've tried to document (often in video form) some of my learnings and mistakes in xplane scenery work. I always say, if I can do it, anyone can! BUT, it has taken me many hours of work, determination and troubleshooting. The best way to learn this topic is to practice, practice, become familiar with xplane's scenery protocols.  As Tom says, the info is a bit scattered all over the place- it shouldn't be like that - then again it'd be a full time job for a few mths to make it all perfectly connected.Using WED to place pre-existing objects, like 'Opensceneryx' libraries, the new xp10 default library and others is dead easy, just drag'n drop. Creating airports from scratch, eg creating taxiways and lighting is also relatively easy, though you naturally need to be very accurate/careful or else you can end up with a well lit..mess!You may catch the scenery bug like me, then you'll  become sick of the pre-constructed scenery. Then you'll need to learn sketchup, blender or AC3D to build your own stuff. Very satisfying doing that. So much so I have to stop and remember I need to fly sometimes!Here's a little demo I did for sketchup:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0burpyN0d8Sketchup is the GA, Blender is like the A380 of modellers. If u want very quick basic results, try sketchup for a bit, then join the big boys. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

This topic is the meat and potatoes of what I want to do with X Plane along with flying. I am really impressed with the replies, so, earlier today, I call my pal who does graphics design, and told him about X Plane 10. We made the decision to team up and do scenery work when X-10 arrives. To say the least we were stoked. I mentioned the tools and on line community / support. Also training and other findings via reading posts. Aside from flying, and seeing the immense potential of X-10, the community support for enhancement is the real jem with all of this. Now I have someone arm's length to Q @ A, and the community. The bringing together of the minds to act as one so to speak, is a powerful tool in education and attaining knowledge. Simmon consider me subscribed, just left a comment.

This topic is the meat and potatoes of what I want to do with X Plane along with flying.

I am right there with you. Very excited to learn and contribute.

Great Drums & Mike! Yes, the Xplane scenery design community seems to be a close-knit and friendly bunch, less 'competitive' than aircraft as the market for payware scenery seems to be smaller- but we'll fix that, pronto!