Hi,Both of those little gems are available here, www.the-underdogs.org , along with many,many old sims, it really is a trip donw memory lane ;).CheersDan.

Barry,I know you mentioned that you have grown a bit tired of both commercial and GA flying in FS2004. Have you tried getting into bush flying? The weather, terrain, addon scenery, and variety of planes to be flown make an intoxicating mix, and there is a fantastic, close-knit bush flying community that welcomes new folks warmly right here at AVSIM (Bush Flying Unlimited). Though I rarely post in BFU's dedicated forums, I visit them every day and thoroughly enjoy reading the pilots' reports of their adventures as well as the discussions surrounding the members' own development of planes, scenery, and the BFU website. So go on, load up your Twin Otter with your dearest worldly belongings, get ready to tweak up your pilotage skills and imagination, and wing your way to the BFU home base just north of KSEA to meet the friendly folks who help extend lifelines to others in need of help or recreational transport in remote areas in a number of regions of our virtual world.The Bush Flying Unlimited General Discussion Forumhttp://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=143BFU Job Assignments and Flight Reportshttp://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=144The Bush Net http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=169On the other hand, what you might need is a break. I've heard from many others who have said that they were tired of simming and just took a break to pursue other interests for a little while. Almost to the person, they have come back to our hobby with renewed vigor and a fresh outlook on what before seemed so *blah* and wondered how they stayed away as long as they did. I'm not saying this to get rid of you, Barry, because you're on my posters-to-read list, and I both like your questions and comments and hope you'll stick around. Just thought I'd toss a couple of ideas to you.Best wishes,:)Kevin

Barry,If you still have a love for the take off and landings but find the hours inbetwen boring how about shorter legs. I try not to fly no more than an hour on any given leg which has me landing at all kinds of fields that I would never of thought. Are you part of any Virtual Airlines? The interactions of combining simming with others makes flying less boring. You can be a pilot or staff member for it. How about using the aerobatic plane for awhile and designing an airshow flight? Spend some time putting together some manuvers then polishing them up so you can fly it every time. (sure wish MS would put some lessons with Patty in the sim). Or lastly I can think of trying some of the Centry of Flights that FS9 has. One that I can think of is the Piper flight across the US. The actual pilot that did that didnt have airports to land at and really didnt have charts so just jump in the Piper (can replace that hard to land plane with one you like) and take off from KEWR. When you find your getting bored just find a flat clear strip of terrain and land. Dont use the GPS, Charts, or Navaids and see how well you can do getting to the west coast. I think if you keep saving the game anddont change planes you could use the map view and it will show your whole course so when you get to the west you can look at where you flew.

for the best world war 2 era flying experience, try this:http://www.hitechcreations.comPrice may be a little steep. (you pay something like $13/ month to get everything you need)Jeff

I replied to this yesterday but it looks like it didn't make it to thread It must be an 'age thing' Barry :-)I too have just bought LOMAC and am still learning it as you might expect.Although I have a Saitek X36 programmable stick I intend to 'cheat' with LOMAC and create a profile for Shoot so I just need to ask for the various views and functions ;-)Be aware that you need a good system to run LOMAC fluidly and even then you probably can't have everything at max.If you do decide to get LOMAC don't patch it immediately, it cripples some of the training missions.Others have mention IL-2 Forgotten Battles, that may be more to your liking and JustFlight in the UK have announced an add-on pack 'Battle over Europe' for action in that area.Hope you find something that brings the spark back.

What if we got together and designed some scenic flights in our own "back-yards", and posted them here with some textual descriptions to add to the scenery in FS? I can think of one, KBJC (Jeffco, CO, my home airport) and KEFE (Eagle County, CO- close to the Vale skiing area). Maybe I'll try putting something together. Flight time in any reasonably fast GA a/c is about an hour, less in a business jet or airliner (which would start at KDEN, of course).How would I attach files to a message (FLT and DOC files)? Do I need to upload them first to the library?Bruce.

Hey Barry ...I am 55 and still find fascination in simming after 25+ years!!! It's still tragic that work gets in the way of my flying experiences!!!!What I do to keep myself motivated, (besides buying every new aircraft available to man, hahaha) is have multiple "projects" underway at the same time. An example is an "around the world" project ... I am on leg 60 .. after flying all around Europe and the Middle East in many different aircraft ... regionals and jets .. and have flow 23,800 miles so far and am at Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean ... getting ready for my next flight to Colombo, Sri Lanka. Also flying around the Hawaiian Islands ... never done that before ... great for GA, 737, DC-9, Dash-8 ... just completed a flight from Honolulu to Kona in a new Jet City DC-9-15 (Hawaiian) with the Hillmerby awesome panel. When I get really cold ... I fly GAs and regionals in French Polynesia ... and DREAM!!!!!I have been around the world in FS2K .. 80000+ miles, and also multiple times in PS 1.3. and have been to places I never knew existed ... ever been to Biak .. Irian Jaya? yikes 10,000 foot runway ... used to be served by a KLM 747 in the old days .. now served by Merpati. How about a vor approach in the fog to Iquique Chile? O well ... so many destinationsI think you need to have a little project or more than one to keep moving .. I am also going counter-clockwise around North America in GA's and regionals ... next leg is Quebec City to Montreal. If you fly with RC3 (or FSATC), some real weather ... Meteo or AS4, and FDC for cockpit chatter .. I find it very "busy" for those long legs, I sometimes get out the atlas and look at all the places I am flying over. I also find that meticulously planning the flight with real charts, and looking for the real NOAA weather . adds to the "immersion".Another thing to try might be working on some freeware project ... or payware .. I spent a year of free time putting together the documentation for Ralph Tofflemire's awesome RFP 747-200 and an working on another set for a current project which ican't name. (hahahahaha).. Doing the 742 ... I learned more than i ever needed to know about the guts of the 747 200 ... and still marvel at the mechanical technology vs computer based technology (i.e. 747-400).Problem with all of this is TIME ... never enough .. but an hour here or two hours there, I can cover 500 to 1000 miles!!!O well ... don't give up! .... lots of good suggestions above .. cheers and Happy Flying!!!

Bruce There is a new section called Dream Flights for exactly what you are suggesting - it's the last entry in the MSF Conference section of the Forum.Dave

Thanks Dave, checking it out.Bruce.

Hi Paul,"I am also going counter-clockwise around North America in GA's and regionals "Do you have a list of city pairs that you are flying around the US? Sounds interesting.Thanks,Bruce.

Hi Bruce,Here is my current counter-clockwise project:Aircraft Type ICAO From/To DistNAm Counter Clockwise Piper Seneca PA-5 KOWD-KMVY Norwood to Martha's Vinyard 75Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KMVY-KTEB Marthas Vinyard to Teterboro 162Cessna 177 N1384C C177 KTEB-KUCA Teterboro to Utica 152Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KUCA-KLEB Utica to Lebanon, NH 137Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KLEB-KBGR Lebanon to Bangor 185Jazz Dash-8-Q300 DHC8-Q3 KBGR-CYHZ Bangor to Halifax 245Jazz Dash-8-Q300 DHC8-Q3 CYHZ-CYYG Halifax to Charlottetown, PEI 85Jazz Dash-8-Q300 DHC8-Q3 CYYG-CYQX Charlottetown to Gander, NFLD 394Piper Meridian PA-46-500 CYQX-CYJT Gander to Stephenville, NFLD 179Jazz Dash-8-Q300 DHC8-Q3 CYJT-CYQM Stephenville To Moncton 289A319 CFM Air Canada A319 CYQM-CYQB Moncton to Quebec City 325This was the clockwise trip :Cessna 177 N1384C C177 KOWD-KHVN Norwood Muni to New Haven 97Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KHVN-KALB Tweed New Haven to Albany 105Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KALB-KCXY Albany to Harricburg (Capital City) 208Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KCXY-KBGM Harrisburg to Binghamton 135Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KBGM-KHPN Binghamton to White Plains (1 GA) 145Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KHPN-KILG White Plains to Wilmington, DE 121Cessna 177 N1384C C177 KILG-KFDK Wilmington, DE to Frederick, MD 83Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KFDK-KORF Frederick to Norfolk, VA 171Cessna 421C 421C KORF-KINT Norfolk to Winston-Salem 216Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KINT-KMYR Winston-Salem to Myrtle Beach 170Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KMYR-KGSP Myrtle Beach to Greenville-Spartanburg, SC 193Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KGSP-KCHS Greenville to Charleston 175Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KCHS-KMCN Charleston to Macon 188Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KMCN-KSAV Macon to Savanah 145Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KSAV-KSGJ Savanah to St Augustine 134Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KSGJ-KVRB St Augustine to Vero Beach 147Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KVRB-KEYW Vero Beach to Key West 238Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KEYW-KMYR Key West to Fort Meyers 122Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KMYR-KPIE Fort Meyers to St Petersburg 92Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KPIE-KTLH St Petersburg to Tallahassee 185Cessna 421C 421C KTLH-KMAI Tallahassee - Mariana Muni - EMERGENCY 75Cessna 421C 421C KMAI-KBHM Mariana Muni to Birmingham 184Piper Cheyenne 400 LS P400LS KBHM-KMOB Birmingham to Mobile 203Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KMOB-KBTR Mobile to Baton Rouge 151Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KBTR-KGLS Baton Rouge to Galveston 217Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KGLS-KAUS Galveston to Austin 158Piper Cheyenne 400 LS P400LS KAUS-KMAF Austin to Midland 256Falcon 50 F-CAEA Dass50 KMAF-KELP Midland to El Paso 222Airbus A319 IAE America West A319 KELP-KTUS El Paso to Tucson 238Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KTUS-KYUM Tuscon to Yuma 205Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KYUM-KMYF Yuma to San Diego, Montgomery Field 140Piper Seneca PA-5 KMYF-KOKB San Diego Mongomery to Oceanside 30Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KOKB-KSBA Oceanside Muni to Santa Barbara 145Cessna 177 N1384C C177 KSBA-KSMO Santa Barbara to Santa Monica VFR 74Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KSMO-KSMX Santa Monica to Santa Maria 115Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KSMX-KSTS Santa Maria to Santa Rosa 247Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KSTS-KACV Santa Rosa to Arcata/Eureka 166Falcon 50 F-CAEA Dass50 KACV-KAST Arcate/Eureka, Ca to Astoria, Or 312Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KAST-KBLI Astoria, OR to Bellingham, WA 174Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KBLI-KGEG Bellingham to Spokane 235Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KGEG-KHLN Spokane to Helena 239BeechJet 400A 0XP B400A KHLN-KISN Helena, MT to Williston, ND 360Cessna 421C 421C KISN-KGFK Williston to Grand Forks, ND 260Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KGFK-KDLH Grand Forks to Duluth, MN 217Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KDLH-KESC Duluth, MN to Escanaba, MI 225Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KESC-KDET Escanaba to Detroit City 269Piper Cheyenne 400 LS P400LS KDET-KBUF Detroit City to Buffalo 227Cessna 421C 421C KBUF-KBTV Buffalo to Burlington 268Piper Meridian PA-46-500 KBVT-KPWM Burlington to Portland 153Cessna 177 N1384C C177 KPWM-KOWD Portland to Norwood 97Looks better in Excel ..Lots of fun!!!

Hi Paul,Thanks, that's a lot of legs. I do note that the distance between city pairs is good for a relatively short flight. How long did it take you?Thanks again,Bruce.

I have to go along with the suggestion about DC-3 Airways.It is a fabulous Virtual Airline. I'm 67 and was bored to tears with the big time flight simulator jet flights. Take off, set autopilot, go to sleep, wake up, land. Wow, how exciting.Since joining DC-3 Airways, I've flown dozens of interesting, exciting, scary flights. I've recently been doing Multi-Player (not VATSIM) and having a ball at it.It seems to me, when sim flying the DC-3 you are really "flying". Not just keying in a bunch of data and sitting back. I find that during a 100 mile flight I am kept busy doing every task from opening and closing cowl flaps to monitoring and adjusting fuel mixture and everything else that comes with "flying" an airplane.Sim flying the DC-3 has taught me more about navigation than I learned in all the other Microsoft Flight Simulator and other simulators, put together. (I started with Flight Sim on my Commodore 64 and subLOGIC's flight sim)The capper is, that the DC-3 Airways membership is made up of absolutely top drawer people. Smart, talented and friendly.Come on over and look over DC-3 Airways.Regards,DonaldS

hey bazza, I'm close, and yes, there's some good recomendations there. I noticed that none of them chose the big titted blonde, that's my favorite of all time, if you can sniff her ankles you're on the first leg, and then there's no where to go but up. Dosn't matter what you fly...EDIT: for the young people....

Bruce,The clockwise around the USA was from Feb 2, 2003 to June 4, 2003 ... had a lot of time on my hands ... hahahaha