For all the X-Plane 10 lovers

[Mountain Man 142]

I realize your response will be the battle cry for XP going forward.

No, my response was a tongue-in-cheek observation about the flight sim community.

[bonchie 2,305]

No, my response was a tongue-in-cheek observation about the flight sim community.

And I've seen the exact response from others on the XP forum as well. It seems to be the current talking point.Someone doesn't like the awful unrealistic cities? Try to belittle them by pretending like those things don't matter and "real simmers" only care about flight dynamics.

[greengriffon 51]

Although I would obviously like my simulator world to resemble what you see in the real world, if I had to pick one or the other, what's important to me is the sensation and experience of flight.I'll take feeling like I'm actually flying an aircraft over seeing a tiny 12-polygon model of the Bellagio below me any day. That's what made Flight Unlimited so great. Did that even have a single recognizable landmark in the entire game? Maybe the Golden Gate Bridge, but that's probably it.In the end, what's important is different for everyone.

[bonchie 2,305]

Let's not pretend like anything currently in XP10 is some step forward in the sensation of flight. The default planes are horrible from every report I've heard.Yes, there is one payware plane (Carenado F33) that seems to do well but there are plenty of FSX planes that do well also.If you order XP10 today you get the worst of both worlds. Bad flight dynamics and completely unrealistic glitchy scenery. Hardly a ringing endorsement. Hopefully, that changes with the next versions.

[Geofa 108]

Let's not pretend like anything currently in XP10 is some step forward in the sensation of flight. The default planes are horrible from every report I've heard.Yes, there is one payware plane (Carenado F33) that seems to do well but there are plenty of FSX planes that do well also.

I've had absolutely no urge to go back to fsx since xplane 10 came out. I agree about the default aircraft-but the Carenado F33 is the closest I've experienced to real flight yet in a sim, and once I experienced that I can't really go back. Also the great weather effects with rw downloads just increase the reality factor 10 fold-at least for me. There is other stuff too.With that said, I will continue to use all my flight sims, and I will eventually go back to fsx. There are things fsx can do that xplane can't too.

[Mountain Man 142]

Let's not pretend like anything currently in XP10 is some step forward in the sensation of flight. The default planes are horrible from every report I've heard.

Most people who complain about XP10's flight modeling haven't bothered to adjust their control settings.

And I've seen the exact response from others on the XP forum as well. It seems to be the current talking point.Someone doesn't like the awful unrealistic cities? Try to belittle them by pretending like those things don't matter and "real simmers" only care about flight dynamics.

It's just amusing to me that a 10-years ago, the back and forth was "My sim has better physics and flight modeling!" "No, mine does!" Today it's, "My sim is prettier" "No, my sim is prettier!"

[bonchie 2,305]

It's just amusing to me that a 10-years ago, the back and forth was "My sim has better physics and flight modeling!" "No, mine does!" Today it's, "My sim is prettier" "No, my sim is prettier!"

Because 10 years ago flight dynamics didn't touch what is even in FSX and graphics technology was nowhere near what it is today. Expectations have been raised as progress has been made and rightfully so.

[Mike T 208]

I remember the good ol' days of flight simming when people used to debate about physics and flight modeling.

Lets be clear. The debate by thousands of non-pilots on what does and doesn't "feel" right in a computer flight simulator is moot. What percentage of the 60+ thousand Avsim users are training to be pilots? 1%? And What percentatge of 60+ thousand Avsim users are assessing Flight or XP10 to test out their proposed newly built aircraft aerodyanics before submitting the design for production. None.FS9, FSX and, I assume X-Plane, can be made to fly by the numbers in an aircraft manual. That's old news and quite irrelevant since few are even qualified to judge, except what they've been TOLD, to be facts of physics and modeling. Have you even seen how many posts are on the forums asking how to put the default GPS into the LDS 767 or how many people are flying the default aircraft, or how many people LOVE lightly modeled airplanes because they don't want to have to learn all the systems? THIS is the majority of flight simmers and do you really think that someone flying the default 737 cares (or even knows) if parasite drag of a B737-900 is modeled or the L/Dmax curve of a C172 is inaccurate? No. Most people want to replicate the only flying they know and this is what they see outside the airliner window. When what they see out the windows looks real then the suspension of disbelief makes it a satisfying experience. It has nothing to do with the accurate effect of deployed landing gear to Vref.Why on earth would I want to have something in FSX and go to a new sim to NOT have the very thing I've had for over a decade? That's the very same reason that half the community is still using FS9! Why move to FSX only to dumb it down? Why move to XPlane only to fly over totally inaccurate scenery?

[Mountain Man 142]

Because 10 years ago flight dynamics didn't touch what is even in FSX and graphics technology was nowhere near what it is today. Expectations have been raised as progress has been made and rightfully so.

I can see you're someone who refuses to laugh at himself. Fair enough.

[Tierborn 188]

We know XP10 has done a pretty admirable job with flight dynamics, while all we have from Flight is....30 screenshots of the exact same thing.Therefore it's still, for the sake of scoring, XP10 1, Flight 0.

How do you know the FM on XPX is good .. no payware yet.

[greengriffon 51]

How do you know the FM on XPX is good .. no payware yet.

Uhhh, where have you been all week? XP10 is out, and many of us already have it in our grubby little hands.

[Mike T 208]

We know XP10 has done a pretty admirable job with flight dynamics, while all we have from Flight is....30 screenshots of the exact same thing.Therefore it's still, for the sake of scoring, XP10 1, Flight 0.

How can there be any score when Flight is NOT even released yet? XP10 has scored nothing until Flight is released and both can be judged side-by-side. Again. Aircraft in both sims can be made to fly by the aircraft owners manual. That argument by Laminar Research is old and irrelevant. As a VFR pilot, your eyes are OUTSIDE of the cockpit looking around 90% of the time. I would shudder to have to look out of my aircraft and gaze upon the lush green fields of Las Vegas or the green surburban paradise that is Manhattan as depicted in XP10. XP10=1? I hardly think so.

[Mountain Man 142]

Why on earth would I want to have something in FSX and go to a new sim to NOT have the very thing I've had for over a decade? That's the very same reason that half the community is still using FS9! Why move to FSX only to dumb it down? Why move to XPlane only to fly over totally inaccurate scenery?

In my case the areas I tend to fly in (small towns and medium sized cities where I've lived) are completely ignored by developers, so I've had to make do without real-world scenery anyway. Besides, it's all make believe, so the accuracy of the view out the windows is less important to me than how it looks. If the overall look of the sim is improved then I'm happy, and in terms of visuals and graphics technology, XP10 is a big step up from FSX. Another reason is that XP10 is in active development while FSX has been abandoned and left to third-party developers trying to keep it together with bandaids. Finally, if you want a commercial sim that runs in Linux, X-Plane is literally the only game in town.So there you go, that's why I bought X-Plane 10 (my first X-Plane purchase, incidentally).

[Tierborn 188]

How can there be any score when Flight is NOT even released yet? XP10 has scored nothing until Flight is released and both can be judged side-by-side. Again. Aircraft in both sims can be made to fly by the aircraft owners manual. That argument by Laminar Research is old and irrelevant. As a VFR pilot, your eyes are OUTSIDE of the cockpit looking around 90% of the time. I would shudder to have to look out of my aircraft and gaze upon the lush green fields of Las Vegas or the green surburban paradise that is Manhattan as depicted in XP10. XP10=1? I hardly think so.

I agree, No way XPX is better than FSX .. I will buy XPX only because I like have all available flight sims. Too much is missing from XP to compete at present.

[greengriffon 51]

How can there be any score when Flight is NOT even released yet? XP10 has scored nothing until Flight is released and both can be judged side-by-side. Again. Aircraft in both sims can be made to fly by the aircraft owners manual. That argument by Laminar Research is old and irrelevant. As a VFR pilot, your eyes are OUTSIDE of the cockpit looking around 90% of the time. I would shudder to have to look out of my aircraft and gaze upon the lush green fields of Las Vegas or the green surburban paradise that is Manhattan as depicted in XP10. XP10=1? I hardly think so.

Yes, there can be a score, because one product can already be evaluated on its actual merits, while the other exists only in your mind and your expectations of what it *should* be.I don't know about your real-world flying, but personally I'm not flying VFR down the Las Vegas strip, or buzzing the Empire State Building. I'm flying in a suburban area with mostly countryside and non-descript towns below me. If I want to go sightseeing, I take a bus. If I want the sensation of flight, I go with the product that delivers that experience.Again, what's most important to you is not what's important to everyone else.By the way, I never said a word about the scenery in XP10, I specifically said the flight model. You're making an argument about a topic I never raised in the first place.