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iko

PMDG Huge Manuals, But No Section Navigation

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Just been braving the NGX manuals about 6 diffrent booklets in all, excellent lots of info.But for manuals in PDF here two are over 1000 pages long, its very hard to navigate a 1000 page document wiithtout bookmatks for headingd and sections.Currently the only way i can navigate this stuff in PDF is by searching for words.I have J41, 747.MD11. NGX and its same thing with all these manuals, if a manual is gona be over 50 pages . heading / section bookmarks is a must for navigating the document.Unless i am missing something here, dont see how i am supposed to read 1000 page manual wihtout being able to use section heading bookmarks.

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CTRL + FWorks wonders.(I do agree, though, bookmarks and all that would be helpful, but would take a lot of time on their end)


Kyle Rodgers

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Actually Boeing does have manuals with navigation done but the cost to license them is vastly higher than the non-indexed ones. It would have made the cost of the product higher and we decided against doing it.


Ryan Maziarz
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Maybe ill have to google the boeing manuals, cause this aint working. Just trying to get enough info for cold start.I would Gladly for go a few items on the plane modeling for a set of manuals i can navigate, as software engineer, half my job is reading documents,and ease of document navigation is 70% of the reading effort.All that is rerquired is a MSword version of the document with only bookmarks for sections and headings. Tried converting the PDF to word online , but the convertion did not pickup on heading.Wount be suprised if there is free tool that could do this online.In any case, realism means big manuals.. i dont mind that, big manuals you cant navigate easily, is a turn off.

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I'm on the comp mostly so prefer my pdf's over anything else. I would though like the hard set since it would give me reason to unplug more. Anywho...To add to what Kyle said, CTRL+F is the best way as I know you already know. Some things can't just be carried into the next subject like others. You might be talking about systems and have there be mention of the FMC but then be disappointed to find it doesn't cover as much as you'd like. That should be expected since that particular chapter(s) wasn't meant to cover it verbosely.Now, take that into account and knowing that chances are high that you'll need to reference several pdf's to answer questions, CTRL+F is for beginners, CTRL+SHIFT+F is what gets things done fast. I always dump all my aircraft specific pdf's into a folder just for them, 744 in its, MD11 in its, etc. Then I can use the more advanced search and it will index where it found what I was looking for in each pdf. You can't do that with hard cover and it saves me days of time, especially being new to a particular aircraft. Nothing beats it, not even the best navigation possible. Perhaps if I were reading a book but it's not. I'm sure you already know this but look around, anything that is as verbose as these pdf's need to be, there's no way to make them perfect for everyone. CTRL+SHIFT+F makes every circumstance the same and is the biggest time saver any developer/engineer/noob could ever use.


i9 10920x @ 4.8 ~ MSI Creator x299 ~ 256 Gb 3600 G.Skill Trident Z Royal ~ EVGA RTX 2080ti ~ Sim drive = M.2  2-TB ~ OS drive = M.2 is 512-gb ~ 5 other Samsung Pro/Evo mix SSD's ~ EVGA 1600w ~ Win 10 Pro

Dan Prunier

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What I don't like with Ctrl + F is that when searching it isn't smart enough to understand that when I search "Glide slope" I also search for "Glide/slope" (just an example so don't hang up on this). It is quite hard to guess what you are looking for... EDIT: Just now I had a problem with the aircraft arming the G/P when I pressed APP even though I have the FMC set to ILS. What do I search for... If I search ILS there will come hundreds of wrong pages. Search for APP and I get stuff like "Appropriate" or "Approved". I know how to search with other words so don't comment on my searching skills but it as Iko said, it is a turn off.


Manfred G.

 

Ships are cooler that you think.

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If you use a pdf viewer/editor like Foxit, you can create your own bookmarks. It's tedious, but well worth it.


Sean St. Onge

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Well, I'm not going to pick on anyones search methods. I only try to teach them better ones. Yours for example can stand lots of improving. If you used the CTRL+SHIFT+F method I already mentioned then you would'nt wonder but again, you'll actually have to read what I said which is most likely your weakest link. If I use this method and the "Advanced Search", it will then quickly list each find, the sentence it is used in and which pdf document it was found in. I then only need to double click which I want since a very quick glance and what it found can very quickly see which I want, and which I don't want. Also, why on earth you wouldn't be smart enough to put a space after APP is beyond my understanding. If you then get words like Appropriate, then it was appropriate due to your lack of putting a space. Oh well, to each their own, but quite frankly, you're doing it wrong, so no wonder you hate it.


i9 10920x @ 4.8 ~ MSI Creator x299 ~ 256 Gb 3600 G.Skill Trident Z Royal ~ EVGA RTX 2080ti ~ Sim drive = M.2  2-TB ~ OS drive = M.2 is 512-gb ~ 5 other Samsung Pro/Evo mix SSD's ~ EVGA 1600w ~ Win 10 Pro

Dan Prunier

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Well, I'm not going to pick on anyones search methods. I only try to teach them better ones. Yours for example can stand lots of improving. If you used the CTRL+SHIFT+F method I already mentioned then you would'nt wonder but again, you'll actually have to read what I said which is most likely your weakest link. If I use this method and the "Advanced Search", it will then quickly list each find, the sentence it is used in and which pdf document it was found in. I then only need to double click which I want since a very quick glance and what it found can very quickly see which I want, and which I don't want. Also, why on earth you wouldn't be smart enough to put a space after APP is beyond my understanding. If you then get words like Appropriate, then it was appropriate due to your lack of putting a space. Oh well, to each their own, but quite frankly, you're doing it wrong, so no wonder you hate it.
Calm down, no need to get mad about a pdf file search....sad.pngTo begin with, i did read your post and I did try to search with CTRL + SHIFT + F but it is more ore less the same thing... The only difference is that you get the files from all the PDF documents in the same folder but that doesn't help me since I know what manual I want to search in. Secondly when I search it only shows the word I searched and the words around it. In that case I prefer the normal CTRL + F since I at least get to see the entire page. Also before getting so cocky about searching with "APP " (with a space after) you could have tried it yourself and found out that it actually doesn't work since It gives the same result as "APP"... There is one thing that helps me and that is if I tick the box called "Whole words only". Then it only shows sentences that contain "APP " and nothing else but again I come to 155 results from which 145 most likely won't help me. I won't simply start a new thread before checking thoroughly but still it would be nice if the manuals had some kind of indexing. That is my opinion. Also i never wrote that I hated it, I wrote that I just don't like it, big difference.

Manfred G.

 

Ships are cooler that you think.

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Wow,Really? Boeing charges more for an indexed manual than a normal one? Whoa!


Patrick Houghton

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Really? Boeing charges more for an indexed manual than a normal one? Whoa!
More work hours went into the indexed one. It makes sense in the end.Having worked with the programs that create native PDFs (not PDF conversions from Word and the like - those are everywhere - I'm talkin the original Adobe stuff), it's not as easy as you'd think. It's not terribly difficult, but it's not like there's an auto-magic button for indexing.

Kyle Rodgers

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What I don't like with Ctrl + F is that when searching it isn't smart enough to understand that when I search "Glide slope" I also search for "Glide/slope" (just an example so don't hang up on this). It is quite hard to guess what you are looking for...EDIT: Just now I had a problem with the aircraft arming the G/P when I pressed APP even though I have the FMC set to ILS. What do I search for... If I search ILS there will come hundreds of wrong pages. Search for APP and I get stuff like "Appropriate" or "Approved". I know how to search with other words so don't comment on my searching skills but it as Iko said, it is a turn off.
These are the tools we have. Learn to use them properly and they work well, don't and they don't. I suggest you spend five minutes exploring the features of "Advanced search".

Paul Smith.

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These are the tools we have. Learn to use them properly and they work well, don't and they don't. I suggest you spend five minutes exploring the features of "Advanced search".
Read my next post...

Manfred G.

 

Ships are cooler that you think.

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CTRL+F and CTRL+SHIFT+F are nothing like the same thing. One just brings you to the next word you're searching for while the other searches all manuals in the directory you specified, then gives each in a sentence so you can quickly and painlessly see which is the one you want. My main reasoning for taking the time to hopefully educate some in this thread was how much time it saves me. CTRL+F is ok on a web page, but not in a robust document. My hopes for explaining the huge difference was because the person above stated "as software engineer, half my job is reading documents,and ease of document navigation is 70% of the reading effort". Well, if that's the case then my explanation will hopefully make that software engineer much more proficient at their job. There are so many things that would save people time if they only knew them. I use to sit next to a much better programmer, yet he for whatever reason used WORD, and not xml's. He also didn't know about Find and Replace. So I think what I'm trying to say is anyone can better anyone elses techniques. He was our head software developer and a genius with Java, yet this plumber helped increase his productivity and sanity in 10 seconds, for life. If it's not for you, great, but if you seriously cannot see it as much difference at all, you really are blind.


i9 10920x @ 4.8 ~ MSI Creator x299 ~ 256 Gb 3600 G.Skill Trident Z Royal ~ EVGA RTX 2080ti ~ Sim drive = M.2  2-TB ~ OS drive = M.2 is 512-gb ~ 5 other Samsung Pro/Evo mix SSD's ~ EVGA 1600w ~ Win 10 Pro

Dan Prunier

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