... it may be the end :(http://tinyurl.com/3drr

The odds are that it will survive. But it is mostly in the hands of its unions.Michael J.[link:jdtllc.com]http://jdtllc.com/images/RCsupporter.jpg

I think they'll survuve, but as a much smaller airline. We'll see what the bankruptcy judge says.

Go to this site,And listen to what the aircraft mechanics have to say http://www.the-mechanic.com/

Come on guys - EVERYONE involved had a hand in it. It was no one group of people that led to this. This realy reminds me of the beginning of the end for Eastern.Hopefully, everyone will decide to work together, and pull UAL through.

>There's more than enough blame to go around here, but I'm >really intersted to hear how any of it falls on folks like >my dad who are out there doing the real work for UAL while >the clueless suits at the top reap what he sows and then >take off to do it again at some other airline... >>Ryan LOL! :-lol Couldn't have said it better myself. That's the sad reality of most corporations these days. The criminal business jerks at the top don't give a good damn about the people that do the real work.But of course you can't say that because then "you have a bad attitude" or "you're not a team player". I understand it's a capitalist society and everyone has a right to make money. Fine. But, you also have to be a decent human being in the process.

>>>Really - how's that? Clearly I was not referring in my prior post to the past but to the future. We know well how poor management contributed to UA's demise. But also one has to be blind not to acknowledge gross inefficiencies in "work rules" that make UAL one of the highest labor cost airlines in the country. WSJ had the whole page article on the subject comparing how many hours pilots fly, .. in UAL versus not only SouthWest but even Continental.Michael J.

I'll answer all the questions for you guys... Why is UAL in the craper?OAK to LAX/LGB roundtrip one week from todaySouthwest: $135.00 per personJetBlue: $112.00 per personUnited: $328.00 per personORD/MDW to LAX roundtrip one week from todaySouthwest: $175.00 per personATA: $325.00 per personUnited: $556.00 per person"Southwest is the smartest run airline ever, I don't think anyone disputes that - they keep to their profitable niche market and they don't try to become everything to everyone (that's just happening naturaly)"Truer words are hard to come by... I bet the boys at UAL weren't listening to "Tabs" when they started their daily non-stops to Caracas, Venezuela.

The Unions certainly didn't help.But UAL charging 3 times as much as their competition certainly didn't help either! LOLShane

As a person who studies airlines and the aviation industry it will be really interesting to find out what happens with United. I really think that the reason that JetBlue and SWA are so sucessful is because they have visionary leaders that know avition and go against the grain when it comes to leadership and direction. There are even rumors that Delta is going to start a low cost airline based on the JetBlue / SWA model. United has always had the what I would call the old school vision of catering to the Business traveler. Their bread and butter was made from them. When all of the businesses tightened their belts, and had everyone sit in the back it greatly affected them.With the advent of hotwire.com and orbitz, etc. anyone, individuals or businesses can log on and find rock bottom prices for any fare. These companies don't even have to pay a travel agent any more. Saving money is the common theme now and it is killing United's bottom line. United is ran like an institution, they have way too much overhead and can't generate enough revenue to keep up. Lots of tree trimming will have to occur or the company will not survive. Look at their financial statements it is amazing. Enron was good at window dressing but with United, it is not possible to hide that much red ink. SWA and JetBlue were the only airlines to post profits in the 4th qtr 2001. Their system works well and it shows.With the unions, I personally don't blame them at all for what they are doing and I support them 100%. For years the upper managment has alienated them. In addition to adapting to the ambient market conditions, many of the uppermanagement don't have the aviation background and know the ins and outs of the industry. Look at the profiles of the top exectutives and there is not one person with an aviation background. They are all lawyers and financial people. No aviation background what so ever. Peter Garrison over on avweb.com writes some great articles called "The CEO of the cockpit" and he offers some very interesting insites about this issue.Well, just my 2 Cents,Take care and fly safe!-CJ Starr

That was a great post... Thanks for your insight!!!

Sorry it took so long to reply, but thanks!Take care,-CJ Starr

This article might help shed some light.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/19/business...ner=MARKETWATCH