Been an age since I last posted on here...Just came across this>>

http://youtu.be/M3mZu8bqAHw

during one of my random Youtube trawls. Now, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in flying, but I have spent enough time reading sites such as Airliners.net and flying this same approach in FSX (I also possess decent common sense) to know that what the PNF is doing (38secs in) is, to put it bluntly, stupid. Surely flying an approach (ANY approach), especially one as challenging as LOWI requires ALL attention to be focused on the job at hand?Seriously, I'm not a stick-in-the-mud and I appreciate that photos from the flight deck are taken from a unique perspective BUT... how can the PNF blatantly disregard the rules like this? More to the point, how is the PIC not screaming his head off at him?

Some crews/airlines are a little more strick than others. It is no different than the filming of World Air Routes Videos and having the crew talking to the camera man (in the TuiFly DVD they are landing a CATII in Venice all the while the F/O is explaning what is going on). They have over 200 DVD's with stuff like this so it is MUCH more common than you seem to think.I seen nothing wrong woth what they were doing there (a great video really). So he snapped a few pics, he seems in the loop the entire time.

How do you that he broke the sterile cockpit rules ? I can't tell from this video and it doesn't look to me at all that the are doing 'private non-situation related' communications.Furthermore this is a visual (or circling) approach and as you can see there's not much to do to assist the PF.You need to be experienced and you need a special training to fly into Innsbruck.Another point is that all airlines do take a lot of photos from the flightdeck during the approach from time to time to enable a more accurate briefing for pilots who haven't flown to this destination before (or more than a year ago)Calling airline pilots who apparently perform a flawless approach like this stupid, is.....simply stupid.

Edited January 8, 201214 yr by bstolle

MUCH more common than you seem to think.

Don't get me wrong, I get that those kind of situations exist. I remember an old BBC series presented by Jeremy Clarkson that had him sat in the jumpseat of a VS 744 on finals at Heathrow and the PIC was sat picking at the stitching of his seat while the plane autolanded. But surely flying a visual approach should have a lot more attention focused on the task at hand? To me this is akin to having a driving lesson, on a motorway in rush hour traffic, and having your instructor talk on his mobile. Just because he's looking out of the window doesn't mean he's necessarily "in the loop"

all airlines do take a lot of photos from the flightdeck during the approach from time to time to enable a more accurate briefing for pilots who haven't flown to this destination before

Would the airline request that he uses his mobile? I can tell you from personal experience that the quality of that specific model of handset isn't good enough to produce a Facebook profile picture, let alone training images. Also, why would this kind of action be OK for someone sat up front, but we as pax are told we have to "turn off ALL electronic devices"?

Don't get me wrong, I get that those kind of situations exist. I remember an old BBC series presented by Jeremy Clarkson that had him sat in the jumpseat of a VS 744 on finals at Heathrow and the PIC was sat picking at the stitching of his seat while the plane autolanded. But surely flying a visual approach should have a lot more attention focused on the task at hand? To me this is akin to having a driving lesson, on a motorway in rush hour traffic, and having your instructor talk on his mobile. Just because he's looking out of the window doesn't mean he's necessarily "in the loop"

I will say it again. I seen nothing worng with what they were doing in that video....

Well, just a little bit lighthearted Russian Crew.All in all we have no idea of what is going on during approaches and landings of 99.9% of flights.I think some RW captains would have long stories to tell to their grandchildren...BTW LOWI, like LPMA, requires special training from the captain.Guess sometimes it's better in the PNF does not disturb him or her, lol!

Being a challenge? If so, then they shouln't fly ever again. If he flew single pilot with an engine failure, then I get your point, but he spends a few seconds and might have flown this trip many times.You should try an NDB approach with no autopilot/GPS etc. and enginefailure on the most critical point - in a real plane with turbulence and being IFR. Even with gusting winds from the side, then this should work every time without to much stress. He is clearly in the loop and doing his job as I see it./Baudie

Having just re-read my OP I have a feeling I might have come across as a little sensationalist, but i'm far from that. To be honest it's more a matter of being perplexed as to why there are so many (seemingly interchangeable) rules and regulations tossed at those of us that sit on the outside of the flightdeck in regards to what electrical items we can and can't use while at the same time those very same items are permitted in the cockpit, in close proximity to the very instruments they're supposed to affect. It wasn't so long ago that the aviation sites were in uproar about a Northwest plane that overshot it's landing because the pilots were on their laptops. Now we have iPads certified as EFBs and yet laptops/phones/handheld gaming devices STILL have to be turn off on T/O & landing.As I said, I'm not an expert/pilot & I'm not pretending to be one (save for virtually) but with videos like that one (which, strangely linked from an unrelated topic) it's hard to see the "YOU'RE CAUSING A RISK TO ALL THE LIVES ON BOARD!" reasoning that so often appears when topics such as in-flight WiFi pop up, and it's easy to see why the general public disregard said rules.Quick example of the "don't care" attitude of an increasing number of people; I flew to EGNX-LEMH not too long ago and there were at least 3 people texting as we were lining up, the guy I was sat next to didn't put his phone away once except when he saw an F/A approaching.

His mobile might be on fly-mode and then it doesn't interfere. Furthermore they are clearly flying visual, so it doesn't matter that much. Of course you can't cover all examples with a rule, other than to turn electrical equipment off./Baudie

I have no idea whether there are sterile cockpit rules for European operators, but in the US, what the FO was doing would be considered a blatant violation of the sterile cockpit rule. Posting on Youtube a recording of a crewmember taking pictures with his camera while on a hight threat activity such as a circling approach in mountainous terrain into a special airport.....wow. Maybe they don't have sterile cockpit rules over there. Who knows.

Edited January 9, 201214 yr by KevinAu

It's not that he broke any rule, as said before: it's done more commonly that you think. They are not flying an IMC approach, they are fully visual and that doesn't really "puts the lives of everyone on board at stake". Given that the public is always so harsh and judgemental about these type of things, he should have done better and just haven't done that while there was a camera filming him (or in the cockpit, for that matter)

It's not that he broke any rule, as said before: it's done more commonly that you think. They are not flying an IMC approach, they are fully visual and that doesn't really "puts the lives of everyone on board at stake". Given that the public is always so harsh and judgemental about these type of things, he should have done better and just haven't done that while there was a camera filming him (or in the cockpit, for that matter)

Here is a simple quote from a rule book, please explain how what he did would not be in violation:"Flight crewmembers will only perform duties required for the safe operation of the aircraft during taxi, takeoff, landing and all other non-cruise flight operations below 10,000 ft."What was said before by others was wrong, as far as the FAA and US operators would be concerned. People break the speed limit when they drive. People text on their cellphones while they drive. Many many things are commonly done by people, but it does not make it right or legal, just because it is commonly done. Yes, there are videos for sale, commercially produced, of flight deck operations. Those videos are done with the authorization of the management of the company and done under stipulated conditions. A jumpseater buddy filming while you're flying and your FO sharing the spirit with his camera out doing his own filming as well while conducting a circling approach in the mountains to a special qualification airport, what is the phrase one would use here....a "no go." VMC is not an excuse to ignore the rules. There is nothing in the sterile cockpit rules about whether it applies to IMC or VMC operations. "Special qualification airport" may sound like just some other lofty technical phrase to the uninitiated, but to airline pilots, what it means is an airport that has special hazards. Like someone already said, you need special training to fly into that airport. What that means is that the airport is considered dangerous. Dangerous enough to warrant the cost of special training. And to fly into a hazardous airport with your attentions diverted like that is simply irresponsible. Not to pile it one, but that was also a circling approach, which is also considered a high risk activity in its own right. There is plenty for the pilot monitoring to do on a circling approach. That pilot needed to be backing up the flying pilot by keeping an eye on airspeed, keeping an eye on altitude, keeping an eye on the runway, keeping an eye on terrain, keeping an eye on obstacles, keeping an eye on the approach chart parameters...do I need to go on? There is plenty to keep a PM busy during a circling approach to assist the PF.

Please let me know where to find those rules from all companys in the world since you know they broke the rules - or just let me know what company this is. I would also like to know which company you fly for./Baudie

Please let me know where to find those rules from all companys in the world since you know they broke the rules - or just let me know what company this is. I would also like to know which company you fly for./Baudie

Quote me where I said they broke the rules. I said I don't know whether or not they had a sterile rule. But if they were American and operating under FAA rules, which they don't appear to be since they look European to me, they would be blatantly violating in the eyes of an FAA fed. That sentence was from a flight ops manual of a US airline. I post enough here that you can deduce from past postings what airline I fly for. And no I don't have all the rulebooks from all the airlines from all the worlds. That is why I said if they were, they would be, if they were under.