New UI Front for X-Plane 10?

[Geofa 108]

Hi all ! :( 5 pages about a "New UI Front for X-Plane 10", and still no detailed functional requirement ? I like the current UI Front, so what would you like to change ?Happy flying.

I thought there were quite a few deatiled functional requirements listed. Just in case I will list mine again. For the record, I like many things about the interface-especially the joystick options.1) The menus and text are way too small for people running in higher resolution setups and those over the age of 40 that use reading glasses.2) The click boxes for changing numbers are ditto too small for those running in higher resolution and cumbersome-more elegant would be a box where one could simply click and type the number on a keyboard-or better yet have both options3) The airport database search needs vast improvement. One should be able to search by Country/state, the city of of the airport, along with the present airport identifier and exact airport name. For me this is a big one.4) It would be nice to have an aircraft menu where simply all aircraft appear with a pictoral representation of the aircraft with one click to change livery on that menu and load the aircraft. (and yes this is one place where xplane could do well to copy fsx-nothing wrong with copying a good idea from a competitor!).

[HiFlyer 9,410]

@MdMaxHm, there were actually some suggestions made earlier. Maybe not as detailed as you might have expected but I'll try to come up with something more detailed today.

One thought as far as accessibility and first user experience is the task of setting up and calibrating the joystick! It seems that in forum after forum (including this one) this issue repeats almost endlessly. (and that's just the people who reach a forum before giving up) Fortunately, this is also something that might be addressable at the user level, and any suggestions would be welcome.Are there any obvious commonalities? Besides "It don't work"Another suggestion is possibly not so amenable to user intervention, and that is labeling confusion: scattered throughout the interface, descriptors like "Cavok" might be plain to experienced aviators and simmers.... but not for very many others. "Clear" or something similar might help decrease unnecessary confusion (and the impression that the Sim is talking only to aviators) since there is probably nobody who does not understand that. (A visual depiction would be the best choice of all!) The recent changes from descriptors such as "Totally Insane" to the more commonly encountered convention of "extreme" might indicate that this issue is amenable to change.It would certainly cut down on people bashfully forced onto wiki to figure out what on earth is attempting to be communicated!Others have already made workflow suggestions about settings being saved and etc, and those more knowledgeable and interested could certainly help in identifying areas where relatively minor tweaks could have large effects on the user experience.Its been pointed out that Menu size cannot be adjusted, creating poor legibility at high resolutions. This causes a ripple effect on the user experience of changing settings, since at high resolutions, the small arrows used to select numerical values become miniscule targets.Beyond that, most ui's (even very old ones) would have the option of simply typing in the needed numeric values, saving much time and effort. That ability would even lesson the existing issue of the lack of ability to adjust menu size (and the resultant affect on the arrows)One might note that so far all of these things are tiny: but the cumulative result of the removal of small user impediments can be very large.That might be enough for a tentative start. :lol:Edit: Darn! I am too slow. Now even the admins are beating me to the punch. :( Edited February 25, 2012 by HiFlyer'

[tom79 6]

Hi all!So I have tried to come up with a sketch how a new airport selection dialog could look like:(Please display in original size)I have tried to retain the functionality of the old dialog, only adding new functions and reorganizing them.A few notes:1. The buttons at the top to filter by airport type are stateful and mutually exclusive, i.e. they are basically just nicer representations of radio buttons. They should contain some nice pictures that help the user visualize what he can expect. The active selection should be indicated by some kind of highlighting.2. The text box at the bottom will displays warning messages and solutions to the user, for example:

• "Your current aircraft is a floatplane but the selected airport cannot be used by floatplanes. Try to find a matching airport by applying the Floatplane Bases filter at the top"
• "There are not Floatplane bases in this area. Please change the location selection or select a different airport type"
• "Your airplane is too large for the selected ramp position"
• "You have not added any favorite airports yet. Try ???..."

3. The airport layout image includes a little plane symbol that indicates the selected position and direction of the aircraft.4. The three buttons in the aircraft position box are again fancy radio buttons (like item 1)5. A list of favorite airports could be maintained by X-Plane, either automatically by analyzing the user's flying statistics, or explicitly by letting the user click some star button in the airport list. If the user stars an airport, some popup should appear to notify him that it has been added to the favorite list.6. The 'x' in the upper right corner defaults to "Cancel" on Windows systems and to "OK" on Macs. (Not sure about Linux)7. All inputs are processed dynamically, i.e. text typed in the Name/ICAO field immediately filters the list (as XP it does currently), as well as applying airport type and location filters. The same is true for the aircraft position selections.This design is certainly not perfect and I'm not sure if it might be too complex at the moment. Maybe it might be possible to break the dialog up into several parts (e.g. by using tabs).I am happily expecting your comments.EDIT: Forgot to mention that the airport type categorization could be edited by users, e.g. with the upcoming airport editor and supplied with the update mechanisms of XP, or imported by some other means

Edited February 25, 2012 by tom79

[Geofa 108]

Wow-that would be great!

[Muskoka 104]

Tom, that does look great, and would be a nice addition. Seeing as the Laminar boys don't visit these forums (so were told), maybe someone close could pass such a nice suggestion on for review. (hint,hint) :wink:Glen

[J.P. 2]

Hi, while I do agree that the UI is perhaps not the *most* pressing issue X-Plane 10 should be improved on, I would like to give my 2c's.Here are a few items which I have been missing from the UI.- An out of sim flight setup screen. I would like to be able to choose Aircraft and Airport prior to firing X-Plane up. That way one would avoid load screens which appear every time you change something in sim.- An auto-generated moving map which plausibly mimiks VFR and IFR charts and can be viewed without pausing the sim. Perhaps even on a separate monitor. It should be optional to not have any indication on aircraft position on the map, so one could use it to practice navigation. The map could be auto generated from the X-Plane terrain and nav database.- A flight planning tool!!! It should be able to spit out the usual stuff (ETE, Fuel, etc.) for each leg and could easily compute these things by looking at the X-Plane nav database and the .acf selected.While this is really more an addition of features rather than a streamlining of the UI for the most part, I do think those things would make sense to have. Agree?

Edited February 25, 2012 by J.P.

[Tierborn 203]

You have a very annoying habit of speaking for other people. Like I said, I can't be bothered rummaging through forum posts to find something that will just get lost in the forums again and will have about as much relevance as what I had for breakfast last Monday.Honestly, is it that much of a big deal?

you are easily annoyed ... So, if its not a big deal .. let folks talk about improvements that would like to see.

[HiFlyer 9,410]

I am happily expecting your comments.

My comment is "Nice job!" :smile:Of course that sort of functionality requires quite a big database. Unless such databases already exist in one form or another, LR itself might not have the manpower to create/support it. This means that the database should ideally be end-user expandable.Community crowd-sourcing.A question to the true gurus out there: Is it possible to create a community overlay for the current interface functionality? Edited February 25, 2012 by HiFlyer'

[TedG 1]

Why not send your idea to LR directly?The UI concept looks pretty good...just bear in mind that XP users probably already have a workflow for setting up flights they are quite comfortable with and that UI might get in the way (i.e. be obtrusive).For example here is how I set up a flight:-Launch XP .exe.-Select aircraft I want to fly-Select livery when I remember to do so (lol)-Select airfield and positionAnd thats my menu interaction done. After that its just working with whatever plug-in I might need to use....FSE/XACARS/Clear Skies/Checklister/XSquawkbox....and everyone will use different plug-ins depending upon what individual preferences happen to be.Personally I would find it intrusive to be presented with a big "box o' stuff to select" when it already takes me just a couple seconds to get set up as things sit now.Perhaps if LR was to consider a UI such as the one presented in this thread they could make it optional....I would not want it forced on me and I think that goes kind of counter to LR's design philosophy.

[Geofa 108]

When you select the airfield-what do you do if you don't recall the identifier or exact airport name? What if you want to explore the airfields of Chile but have no idea what the airport identifiers are? I recall my rw flights by city usually as most pilots I know do-doesn't work in the search now. Sure-you can exit the program, and if the airport is in the US go to airnav.com which has a great database search-for Chile I found myself out of luck-was hard to find info-and I finally gave up exploring it-shame cause the scenery looks spectacular there.

[HiFlyer 9,410]

When you select the airfield-what do you do if you don't recall the identifier or exact airport name? What if you want to explore the airfields of Chile but have no idea what the airport identifiers are? Sure-you can exit the program, and if the airport is in the US go to airnav.com which has a great database search-for Chile I found myself out of luck-was hard to find info-and I finally gave up exploring it.

And that's what I meant about a database. Beyond that, all I can think of is a very broad category drill-downAs to being forced to use an interface, that would pretty much be counter to everything being discussed. There should always be an option to default to legacy setups.Ideally, you would even be able to make your own preferred layout and have it stick. With an obvious button to return things to basic (or step backwards) if you paint yourself into a corner trying to make that customized dream setup.Another idea for new users might be something as simple as a screen at start up that says: New user/Intermediate user/Expert userEach choice would allow access only to controls deemed appropriate to a chosen level, with more complex functionality perhaps hidden behind an"advanced" tab. Once you choose a user level, it would stay at that level on subsequent start-ups unless you explicitly changed it.

[Tierborn 203]

When you select the airfield-what do you do if you don't recall the identifier or exact airport name? What if you want to explore the airfields of Chile but have no idea what the airport identifiers are? I recall my rw flights by city usually as most pilots I know do-doesn't work in the search now. Sure-you can exit the program, and if the airport is in the US go to airnav.com which has a great database search-for Chile I found myself out of luck-was hard to find info-and I finally gave up exploring it-shame cause the scenery looks spectacular there.

you can google world airport codes..... in your example, google chile airport codes. But, I agree, If the UI was organized differently, finding airports would be less cumbersome.

[TedG 1]

When you select the airfield-what do you do if you don't recall the identifier or exact airport name? What if you want to explore the airfields of Chile but have no idea what the airport identifiers are? I recall my rw flights by city usually as most pilots I know do-doesn't work in the search now. Sure-you can exit the program, and if the airport is in the US go to airnav.com which has a great database search-for Chile I found myself out of luck-was hard to find info-and I finally gave up exploring it-shame cause the scenery looks spectacular there.

I pre-plan every flight I make in FS Commander for both XP and FSX....even VFR as I can pull down the local weather and get VATSIM coverage confirmation all in one spot on top of all the planning-related stuff. But thats just me and I will acknowledge that not everyone has access to third-party planning tools or the luxury of a second adjacent PC for charts and other stuff (like posting while flying lol).**edit**I always know where I am going in advance anyway. I get tempted by the "get me lost" function sometimes but have yet to try it.

[Geofa 108]

Actually your post kinda proves why the ui needs to be improved. Right now it is designed for flying in a very specific way, and one thing I have learned in 32 years of flight simming is not only have my needs changed constantly, but that everyone's are different.I probably would have been perfectly happy flying the way you describe when I was working on my instrument rating in 1992. After 23 years of flying (most ifr) I have to say-I find flight planning boring, I feel no need to dabble with atc (1) a simulation can't come close to what happens rw 2)I can't stand the tedious keypresses needed to do all that). I like that unlike the rw, I can jump in a plane without preplanning the flight, doing preflights, and just go have fun!In fact-at my stage of flying now-I have almost gone back to where I was at the beginning in simming. I like to go to an airport (either reliving rw or a place I have never been), takeoff and do some touch and goes and explore a little-then move on to another airport. I can't remember the last time I did a cross country in a sim. I do do instrument approaches in the sim alot-but again that entails staying at one airport for me.Mostly I use a sim now to revisit interesting airports I have landed at-see how good they are done in the sim, relive experiences, explore new areas of the world, and practice instrument approaches for training.So-I pull up the airport requester-and let's say I want to relive an interesting airport I have been too.Off the top of my head-Wenatchee Washington. (Most pilots-at least the ones I know refer to an airport that way-not by the official airport name).Interesting airport because the approach puts you between two mountains on the Columbia river. When you pop out in solid ifr it is sobering-and when on the ground a 737 checkpilot told me he used to bring his guys there to shake them up a little.In any case-type Wenatchee into the file requester-great! Pangborn Memorial Airport pops up (keat) and I am off flying practice instrument approaches.Now after doing that I decide I'd like to fly Leadville in Colorodo-the highest airport in the US. Type Leadville in the requester-nothing...type Lake county (the airport name) in the requester....nothing.. What a drag, have to exit the sim and go to airnav to get the identifier.Now I have a fancy to go fly out of Montgomery field in San Diego where I did cfi training 9 years ago. Type in Montgomery field....nothing...type in San DIego...nothing. Gotta exit the sim, go to airnav and find the identifier for that one.How about Chelen airport-rather famous in the airport world. Type in Chelen...nothing....Type in Lake Chelen (the airport name)....nothing....exit the sim and go to airnav to get the identifier.Now-since I have visited most of the US airports I am actually interested in exploring interesting areas of the world. As I mentioned above-Chile has appeal to me. Now what to do....Can't sort by Chile and I found getting info about the airports is difficult.For me-the airport requester is very frustrating to use. It really needs improvement....and that is coming from a serious 31 year simmer 23 year rw pilot. How is the new user gonna feel who may want to go fly at their local airport but doesn't know what an identifier is and can't find their home airport...

[tom79 6]

Thanks for your comments, guys!I actually had a short e-mail exchange with Austin on saturday regarding the airport selection dialog. Unfortunately he didn't like it because it would add more clutter to the UI and also because the specification was too incomplete to use (e.g. the warning messages were not properly specified).I backed off from the discussion because I didn't feel like producing a complete write-up for the dialog that can be turned into code changes right away.But Austin also said that he always wants feedback to improve the product. That feedback must be specific, concise and thorough, therefore he won't read lengthy discussions like this forum thread.So I would suggest now that we discuss smaller UI improvements here and if we feel that it is good, someone might e-mail Austin with the change request; --but remember: specific, concise and thorough. It must be convincing as an actual improvment, or he won't use it.