I think a prerequisite of that is that LR need to hire more staff (assuming development on function isn't compromised). Can't remember how many make up the LR team, but I seem to remember 12 staff members being mentioned. Considering simpler games (e.g. Angry Birds) have bigger programming teams (and even bigger marketing / branding teams), LR would need to hire a lot more staff to apply the neccesary polish in a typical software lifecycle period.

Only they can decide that, and that depends on if they really want to make a bid for the crown.In the meantime, Tom79's suggestion of soliciting useful suggestions seems worthwhile. Like a sort of "What the heck, somebody might even read it" enthusiast focus group. Has there ever been an effort by Xplane users to collect friendly suggestions? (as opposed to bug reports)

Edited February 24, 201214 yr by HiFlyer'

His sales are always increasing and in a few years FSX will have gone the way of the dodo.Seems inevitable to me.

His sales are always increasing and in a few years FSX will have gone the way of the dodo.Seems inevitable to me.

I am scared of inevitability as a business plan! :((Might work if FLIGHT! obligingly falls over and dies, and if people don't cling to FSX with the same ferocity as FS9 was clung to)You started me laughing though, so thanks for that. I had an instant unexpected flashback to Darth Vader and James Earl Jones deep voice intoning "Luke....... it is inevitable. It is your destiny." in one of the Star Wars films. :(

Edited February 24, 201214 yr by HiFlyer'

I am scared of inevitability as a business plan! :((Might work if FLIGHT! obligingly falls over and dies, and if people don't cling to FSX with the same ferocity as FS9 was clung to)You started me laughing though, so thanks for that. I had an instant unexpected flashback to Darth Vader and James Earl Jones deep voice intoning "Luke....... it is inevitable. It is your destiny." in one of the Star Wars films. :(

Not Star Wars.Matrix.On the topic of quality, etc...Austin always listens to customers feedback as well as developers. Sometimes he'll add or enhance things, and other times he won't.Personally, and at the risk of sounding selfish, I hope he DOESN'T change much, if anything at all. The X Plane community is used to everything about X Plane. A large portion of it came from FS9 and FSX...me included. It's not hard to get used to.

Not Star Wars.Matrix.On the topic of quality, etc...Austin always listens to customers feedback as well as developers. Sometimes he'll add or enhance things, and other times he won't.Personally, and at the risk of sounding selfish, I hope he DOESN'T change much, if anything at all. The X Plane community is used to everything about X Plane. A large portion of it came from FS9 and FSX...me included. It's not hard to get used to.

The choice not to change is also an option. I do find it funny though that the Xplane people say that the FSX people should get used to the Xplane interface and not be afraid of change..... and then they say please don't change our interface! :((And thanks for clarifying the source.)

Edited February 24, 201214 yr by HiFlyer'

Have you ever told your best friend...let alone a perfect stranger...to redecorate their house before you decided to come over and visit?I'm used to the forums I frequent for x plane. Should I email Tom Allensworth and tell him to change avsim to resemble the forums I normally go to? Those forums I frequent have over 6000 registered members. Imagine the influx to AVSIM! Many more advertising dollars for Mr. Allensworth!What if X Plane suddenly stops at V10 and we all go to Flight/FSX/Prepar3d...should the x plane community ask for the UI's to be changed to more closely resemble X Planes UI. I mean, it means more sales for those sims, doesn't it?If on the extremely off chance this happens, I'm sure you can agree that the laughs from the Flight/FSX/Prepar3d community will be more than forthcoming!I have no doubt you can see what I am getting at.

Have you ever told your best friend...let alone a perfect stranger...to redecorate their house before you decided to come over and visit?I'm used to the forums I frequent for x plane. Should I email Tom Allensworth and tell him to change avsim to resemble the forums I normally go to? Those forums I frequent have over 6000 registered members. Imagine the influx to AVSIM! Many more advertising dollars for Mr. Allensworth!What if X Plane suddenly stops at V10 and we all go to Flight/FSX/Prepar3d...should the x plane community ask for the UI's to be changed to more closely resemble X Planes UI. I mean, it means more sales for those sims, doesn't it?If on the extremely off chance this happens, I'm sure you can agree that the laughs from the Flight/FSX/Prepar3d community will be more than forthcoming!I have no doubt you can see what I am getting at.

not really ...... most software companies strive to develop UI's that will appeal to the broadest segment of the buying demographic. Additionally, you can read on very game release, people talking about the usefulness/non usefulness of the UI. This thread is no different than any other thread talking about UI's of a newly released game.

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't go to Electronics Boutique or JB Hi Fi, pick out a game I really think looks good and am VERY interested in buying, and start grilling the sales guy about the UI.Every single game or sim I have ever bought, I never even considered the UI. Imagine that, going to Best Buy or Walmart, picking out a game with state of the art graphics, and the first question you ask is, "How's the UI? Does it appeal to a broad audience? You know, I haven't seen or played this game before and if the UI isn't intuitive, user friendly, etc...verbal diarrhea, etc....I'm bringing the game right back and I'll want a refund! You can take your 3D graphics and 3D sound and shove it if the UI isn't intuitive or user friendly!" :( :blink:Thinking about this whole fuss about a UI, I have to say, it is rather silly.

Please, please, please, don't reset this discussion to the point where it started.This discussion is NOT about making X-Plane look like FSX, so the FSX aficionados need not adapt to change. This discussion is about making X-Plane more approachable to newbie simmers to help it to succeed in the market.Please read this thread from beginning to end and you will see that many of your objections were already adressed. We are not bashing X-Plane. We want to make it better. And this discussion thread has been one of the most constructive and interesting pieces I have read on Avsim for a very long time.EDIT: My reply was probably a little harsh. Of course, if you have something in X-Plane you that you think it should stay the way it is because it is BETTER, then please say so and we can discuss it. TedG did this with the aircraft selection menu.

Edited February 24, 201214 yr by tom79

One point regarding the UI that has been on my mind for some time:When you open the settings dialogs, make some changes, you have to click the 'x' to apply them and close the dialog. This is a little problematic, because in Windows, clicking the 'x' to close a dialog defaults to the "Cancel" action, i.e. do not apply the changes. Many usability experts preach that it is not a good idea to break with existing UI conventions, because some users are conditioned to them.The dialog-closing behavior is different on MacOS I believe, which may be the reason why the dialogs in XP are the way they are. But wouldn't it be possible to add two OK/Cancel buttons to the bottom of the dialogs? This would also be an improvement because there is no way to cancel your changes in the current dialogs. Once you have changed something you must apply the changes (or revert each change manually).

Thinking about this whole fuss about a UI, I have to say, it is rather silly.

While I don't have any real issue with the XP UI and am far more interested in seeing further improvements in the sim itself....trivializing the views of other users (and the newcomers to X-Plane in particular) is counter-productive. And there is always room for improvement n'est pas?

While I don't have any real issue with the XP UI and am far more interested in seeing further improvements in the sim itself....trivializing the views of other users (and the newcomers to X-Plane in particular) is counter-productive. And there is always room for improvement n'est pas?

Ted, I agree with you.But when people start saying things like "if the UI isn't fixed/enhanced/changed/adjusted/looks better, then I'm not getting it..." it's a little counter productive, and a tad far fetched in itself, don't you think?Sure, I don't mind if Austin decides to add nice graphics, an easier way to find airports, etc...but I would like to see the core of the UI maintained.If he doesn't add these things, then it really doesn't matter to me, and obviously to several others who are accustomed to it.Yourself included.

Ted, I agree with you.But when people start saying things like "if the UI isn't fixed/enhanced/changed/adjusted/looks better, then I'm not getting it..." it's a little counter productive, and a tad far fetched in itself, don't you think?Sure, I don't mind if Austin decides to add nice graphics, an easier way to find airports, etc...but I would like to see the core of the UI maintained.If he doesn't add these things, then it really doesn't matter to me, and obviously to several others who are accustomed to it.Yourself included.

Hmmmm..... I thought we had moved past this point.As Ted79 noted, the issue we are discussing is accessibility. The UI is an initial symptom, and an important one, but by no means at this point the only one.Beyond that, whats being presented here (hopefully) is a missing viewpoint, and some "outside-the-beltway" thinking on the real world consequences of disregarding the user experience of casual/first time simmers.Most companies find it useful to hear from the broadest demographic possible within a target market. Microsoft, the creator of the most successful flight simulation product in history, has just completed a beta program which actively gathered as many perspectives as possible to help "reality check" its own estimates of consumer reaction.Why?Here is some info (only for the very very interested!) that may add a useful perspective as to why modern companies pay attention to such things.50% of product returnsBe careful of Cognitive frictionCustomer experiance boosts revenueAs opposed (again) to some practical results of perhaps not considering such things. (please read all the customer reviews) http://www.amazon.co...cm_cr_pr_sims_t

Edited February 24, 201214 yr by HiFlyer'

As opposed (again) to some practical results of perhaps not considering such things. (please read all the customer reviews) http://www.amazon.co...cm_cr_pr_sims_t

Ok....this is pretty funny. Providing a reference to amazon.com customer reviews with regard to X-Plane is practically perverse :( .**edit**On the plus column for X-Plane today I am currently in mid-flight at FL330 and guess what....winds aloft nightmare is finally over at least in XP9.7 thanks to a plug-in. Wooohoooo the high altitude stuff is now coming from the forcast as opposed to "take METAR double winds and add extra hate if flying north/west".

Ok....this is pretty funny. Providing a reference to amazon.com customer reviews with regard to X-Plane is practically perverse :( .**edit**On the plus column for X-Plane today I am currently in mid-flight at FL330 and guess what....winds aloft nightmare is finally over at least in XP9.7 thanks to a plug-in. Wooohoooo the high altitude stuff is now coming from the forcast as opposed to "take METAR double winds and add extra hate if flying north/west".

Could you clarify? I choose Amazon because its where "regular" people shop."Regular" being consumers that would not normally be seen at a solely aviation themed outlet, hence a fair sample "in the wild" of the average non-enthusiast consumer generally not represented on these types of forums. (but who are in fact the bulk of the millions that Made FSX a success, and would have to be attracted to recreate that success in the non-enthusiast market)Essentially its a small sample of "all the other guys"And their reactions.Which brings up the issue of all the people who read those reactions, and stayed away.And what can be practically done to address that. (note: the full impact is lost, unless you read them all) we cant work together to do better?

Edited February 24, 201214 yr by HiFlyer'