Of all the things we could be discussing...LOL!Seriously, it's good to see there is so much passion for X-Plane. I hope that the "collective" passion from X-Plane users translates into more users and third party development. We need all those great addons that MSFS has... UT, REX, ORBX... just to name 3!Actually, I'd be happy if X-Plane came with some generic airport buildings! Ya wanna talk gripes??? That's a big one for me. :)

Edited February 18, 201214 yr by Murray_CHYZ

Yet we never seem to stop there. Continual improvement and evolution seems to be a natural stateXPlane9 also "worked" in that it was a usable flight simulator. Why then are we at Xplane10?

Comparing the development of a flight simulator to a menu is completely ridiculous. Sorry!Actually on second thoughts the menu system is extremely important but we already have a menu system that works flawlessly and is out the way unless you actually need it. Why waste valuable development time on something that works well and ain't broke.Anyway as the post above mentioned, it is what it is, so lets move on.

Edited February 18, 201214 yr by jasonX

Comparing the development of a flight simulator to a menu is completely ridiculous. Sorry!Actually on second thoughts the menu system is extremely important but we already have a menu system that works flawlessly and is out the way unless you actually need it. Why waste valuable development time on something that works well and ain't broke.Anyway as the post above mentioned, it is what it is, so lets move on.

Actually, I think its not ridiculous, or I would not have written it, and the original poster would not have started the thread. :((I also note the question was side-stepped)As to moving on, if you honestly believe the subject is that ridiculous, I have no desire at all to waste your time. Why on earth would I?Leaving that behind, yes, presentation can be very important in an item for sale. In fact, aren't most of the innovations that are causing such a stir of renewed interest In the Sim centered around issues of presentation? (clouds, trees, buildings, roads etc?)Why is the UI (the face presented to the buying public and establishing a first impression of the product) of such a low priority? Admittedly there are more important issues, but this is certainly not a non-existent one. Nor should it be immune to questioning by potential purchasers.Interestingly enough, I just read a review of XPlane10 that brought up the same issue. http://www.technologetic.com/2011/12/x-plane-10-review/The conclusion was:Pros

• Ultra-realistic weather
• Ultra-realistic aircraft available
• A ‘plausible’ world – with high resolution textures and credible roads and objects
• A scientific simulator
• Takes advantage of hardware acceleration and multi-core CPUs

Cons

• Some glitches – still in beta
• Sometimes shoddy user interface
• Old aircraft remain from very late versions
• Most GPUs will struggle at times

Actually, I think its not ridiculous, or I would not have written it, and the original poster would not have started the thread. :((I also note the question was side-stepped)As to moving on, if you honestly believe the subject is that ridiculous, I have no desire at all to waste your time. Why on earth would I?Leaving that behind, yes, presentation can be very important in an item for sale. In fact, aren't most of the innovations that are causing such a stir of renewed interest In the Sim centered around issues of presentation? (clouds, trees, buildings, roads etc?)Why is the UI (the face presented to the buying public and establishing a first impression of the product) of such a low priority? Admittedly there are more important issues, but this is certainly not a non-existent one. Nor should it be immune to questioning by potential purchasers.Interestingly enough, I just read a review of XPlane10 that brought up the same issue. http://www.technolog...lane-10-review/The conclusion was:Pros

• Ultra-realistic weather
• Ultra-realistic aircraft available
• A ‘plausible’ world – with high resolution textures and credible roads and objects
• A scientific simulator
• Takes advantage of hardware acceleration and multi-core CPUs

Cons

• Some glitches – still in beta
• Sometimes shoddy user interface
• Old aircraft remain from very late versions
• Most GPUs will struggle at times

Hi DevonJust to understand somethingWhat you're basically saying is, correlating that review conclusion with your post...X Plane might have a fantastic flight model, weather, etc... but if it comes with a crap UI, then I ain't touching X Plane with a 10ft cattle prod!I may have misinterpreted your post, and forgive me if I have, but I know this is the thinking of some people.The UI may not be pretty, but it is fully functional and does a very good job. Many people don't feel it is outdated at all. It's just not as pretty as what many FSX users are accustomed to.

I think Austin said that he would change the XP's UI in the near future.

I personally find the X-Plane UI perfectly usable and functional from the first time I used it, I'm actually stumped at how many people have issues with it, but on the other hand, since it seems there are a lot of people who don't like it, and since I think "the customer is always right", it would not be a bad idea for Austin to revise it in the near future.

I think Austin said that he would change the XP's UI in the near future.

If this is the case I certainly hope:-It remains unobtrusive and only seen when desired-It does not require RMC-hide/unhide-It does not take ages to get to the desired menu item-It remains simple, full-featured, and easy to comprehend :Whistle:Just saying. I would prefer LR spend quality time with things like continual performance refinements, generic populated airfields, and the like as opposed to fixing something that certainly ain't broke!As a side note the reviewer mentioned above is complaining about two specific items:1-The splash screen logo. I mean-come on...seriously!2-The function surrounding selection of aircraft. Again....ain't this a pretty minor gripe? Just how hard is it to Aircraft-pick folder-open folder-select acf file and click open? And he totally neglects to mention the ability to select different liveries on the fly without having to restart the sim.Pfffffffft.....never mind the chuckle-inducing descriptions of XP9.

Hi DevonJust to understand somethingWhat you're basically saying is, correlating that review conclusion with your post...X Plane might have a fantastic flight model, weather, etc... but if it comes with a crap UI, then I ain't touching X Plane with a 10ft cattle prod!I may have misinterpreted your post, and forgive me if I have, but I know this is the thinking of some people.The UI may not be pretty, but it is fully functional and does a very good job. Many people don't feel it is outdated at all. It's just not as pretty as what many FSX users are accustomed to.

No, to me its a question really of puzzlement.I tried Xplane9 years ago and was chased away by the interface. In the intervening years I stubbornly tried it again from time to time but, the relative opaqueness of the UI was off-putting, and spoke to me of a cottage industry offering, rather than a professional product.An analogy to me is the difference between Linux and Windows. Yes, they do the same things and do them well, and yes Linux might even be a superior product in many ways, but there is a reason why people will flock to windows again and again, and I have always felt that Xplane9 crippled itself in that regard in its lack of friendliness to a broader class of users.Similarly, many of the XPlane faithful may be satisfied and even happy with the state of affairs in place, sometimes to the point of disdain of the unenlightened; but while money is being made, I have often felt that much money was also being left on the table, because the task of being inviting to others "outside of the circle" sometimes appears to be seen as an unnecessary one.

Edited February 18, 201214 yr by HiFlyer'

You can get used to any UI given enough time. We are all long-time armchair pilots here who enjoy studying complex things such as airliners to understand how they work. But I'd imagine that XP is a little intimidating for people who try flight sim for the time.I think Austin needs to make XP a little more user-friendly for FS newbies. And that doesn't just include a new UI, but also things like tutorial flights similar to the MSFS flying school.

Linux might even be a superior product in many ways, but there is a reason why people will flock to windows again and again

Because most PCs come with Windows pre-installed?

Because most PCs come with Windows pre-installed?

That is one reason certainly, but not at all the only one. If that was the case then so many of us would not be browsing here with Firefox or Chrome. Ease of use and presentation matters.

Agreed - different does not equal broken... but there's no better time to make a play for MSFS users than right now.Since XP10's release, we've read posts and messages from folks who have tried the demo or even bought the program, and for various reasons got quickly flustered with their trial to the point of no longer wanting to use it any more.X-Plane experts would suggest various legitimate workarounds and changes, such as adjusting control sensitivities, rendering options, and other adjustments... but by that time, a casual user may find themselves too frustrated. I think most sensible people will understand that things will be different from one manufacturer to another, but the first impression that X-Plane gives to a complete novice is that it is designed for someone who is already an expert.

(

It took me an inordinate amount of time when I started the demo trying to figure out how to change airplanes. The browsing structure to go between airplanes is functional, but not intuitive at all

-

and I don't consider myself a novice with flight sims in any respect!

)

For simulation enthusiasts, the UI isn't as big of a deal - we're far more interested in the content of the product as opposed to the "presentation". For more casual users though, the stark differences and expert nature of how things are laid out in X-Plane vs. the product they've been using for a decade+ will have an impact.I'm not suggesting they go all Fisher-Price and make the interface a toy... but there are many things which could be tweaked about the user interface and the default state of the simulator which can soften the transition, thus keeping potential customers interested for a longer time.

(

Experts will probably be tweaking the default settings from the first moment the sim is installed, so why not set up the defaults to be a little more forgiving to new users instead of being "full realistic".

)

When you have a perfectly functional and enjoyable simulator already installed on your computer, I feel the first impression you get from the XP10 demo is going to have a major impact on your decision to buy - it's kept my $80 firmly planted in my wallet (*not due to the UI at all), but at least I have the sensibilities to keep tabs on development and update/try the demo regularly to see what's changing.Sometimes it feels like Laminar Research has set things up to weed out those who are serious about their simulators from those who are more casual, and if you can "pass the test" of getting things running to your liking, you are worthy of using X-Plane. Contrast that with their lofty goals of wanting to be the heir to FSX, which despite its performance issues upon release, was fairly straightforward and forgiving to operate.Considering that all X-Plane users would benefit from a larger user base, it's a bit funny to find some users near-adamantly opposed to any changes to the interface, when all it will do is give a much needed better first impression.(Edit: Smilie removal)

Edited February 18, 201214 yr by greggerm

Comparing the development of a flight simulator to a menu is completely ridiculous. Sorry!Actually on second thoughts the menu system is extremely important but we already have a menu system that works flawlessly and is out the way unless you actually need it. Why waste valuable development time on something that works well and ain't broke.Anyway as the post above mentioned, it is what it is, so lets move on.

Not a waste .. it would draw more users and thus developers to XPX. The "it is what it is" statement is good to help ease your mind, but, it is a truly "caveman" type thought.

OK, the cavemen type thoughts help you live longer too I hear ;)

Would that be Neanderthal or Cro-Magnon?:( Only kidding!!! Could not resist!