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amalric123

List of bugs

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Hello,I am very happy to see the P46T modeled for FSX. Graphic design is nearly perfect, 3D panel is one of the best I've seen and aerodynamics are quite near the real thing.Congratulations! You guys did a great job.But as a real world Jetprop pilot, I was very disapointed by the systems and the avionics behaviour. They are far far away from the real thing. I prepared a list of most critical items. I'm sure that those problems can be solved easely.-Condition lever: Only ON or OFF. You can't adjust the condition in the real plane.-Prop governor switch not active: when you push it @ 2000rpm, there should be a drop of about 200rpm. Made for propeller governor testing purpose. Spring loaded.-Emergency fuel valve not working. Should cut fuel flow to the engine.-Thrust reverser lever not animated.-Flaps working with master off.-Manual overide not working.-Cabin depress lever not working. Dump cabin working.-Emergency gear extension not working.-Gear position indicators illuminated with master off.-Ice door swith should be a spring loaded 3 position switch. You need to keep it pressed for 3-5 seconds in either way for the door to operate. Open or close light should appear when the maneuver is complete. When ice door is on, torque decreses about 150 lbs at max power. No EGT change. Ice door light stay off whatever the switch position is. Exactly the same with the oil door switch and indicator.-Sounds of FD switch, gear lever, etc... when master is off.-Ground clearance switch should power the nav1/com1 as well as the audio selector.-Audio box on with master off and ground clearance off.-XPDR1 on with radio master off. No off button on it.-Manual overide light should comme on when pressing it with master on. Spring loaded.-In manual fuel mode, the wing tanks pumps should be earable when switching from off to left/right fuel selector.-Ignition on light should be off when the ignition switch is on and the condition lever is off. It lights only when you advance the condition lever. In auto ignition mode, the ignition light should come on only with power lever below 70/100.-wing fuel pump indicator light should stay off with engine fuel pump 1 or 2 on. This light only come on when fuel is taken from the wing tanks to the header tank. Either in manual fuel mode or auto fuel mode.-Fuel mode switch is a three way switch with off in the middle.-Gen light stays green with gen deconnected.-Starter should stabilize Ng at or above 15/100.-no bus voltage drop with starter on. Should drop 3-4 volts.-Engine can be started with ignition off.-Standy alt amps indicator positive with alt alternator disconected.-Procedure is to recharge the battery 1 and 2 after start up with standy alternator and gen off.. The standby amps indicator should deacrease from about 50 amps to 20 amps and stabilize when switching from each battery with alt alternator on. The master gen cannot recharge the batteries.-Engine can be started with engine fuel pump off.-Stanby alt inhibits the master gen when it is on. Green gen light come on when you shut off the -standy alt with the gen switch on.-SIBAS is the after start checklist: Starter off, Ignition off, Battery on 1, standby alt on, (battery on 2, wait for recharge, batt both, standby alt off, check gen green light on when gen switch on) shadin on tq/egt.-Proppeler heat behavior: on theground, with the prop heat switch on, the prop amps stays at zero. On the ground, when pushing the prop test button on the prop amps indicator, it should rise to the green zone and return to zero when the test switch is realeased. In the air, when prop heat is set to on, the prop amps rises and main amps indicator rises 40 amps.-No correlation beetween electrical consumers and master amp indicator except master avionics.-With prop heat on, the indicator on the warning panel is "select deice". It should be "surface deice" in white.-Surface deice switch should light the surface deice on the main annuciator.-Yaw damper is a three way switch. It shoud be reading off when in auto mode on the ground and on in the air. In on mode, it should always stays on. Off position is in the middle.-Go around button on the power lever missing.-Master fuel pump sound much too high.-Fuel tank selector in off position shut down the engine. It should only select the wing tank to replenish the header tank in auto or manual fuel mode.-Standy altimeter should be setable below 0ft.-Vs selection on G500 limited to 2000 ft/min.-power should be limited by egt at about 10000ft.-Green gear lights stays on when gear is up.-Fuel flow should read around 20lbs/h at idle on the ground.-Egt temperatures are way too low.-App mode not working correctly with ILS.-Taxi lights switch is a three way with off in the middle.I've not been to much into avionics as I don't have the realityXP package. I'll soon buy it, try and let you know.Wish you all the best and thanks again for this great product!Amalric Decotte

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-power should be limited by egt at about 10000ft.BINGO!Do you also find you are exceeding max nG % in high altitude climbs?oh should also post some pics up of the real DL ;)

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That's quite a long list. I can solve one of your concerns. Here is a copy of an earlier post I did to lower the volume of the fuel pumps-

Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:51 AMCooIP,I played with various sound settings in the sound.cfg Like you suggested. The settings below work pretty well. The pump is not overly loud now that you hear it while the engine is running, but is easily heard with the engine shut off. Thanks again for the tip.minimum_volume=3000maximum_volume=9000Bill

Add the above to lines to the FUEL PUMP section of the sound.cfg. Just in case, make a backup copy of your sound.cfg before making any changes. When your done, the FUEL PUMP section wiill look like this-[FUEL_PUMP]filename=jetfuelpumpflags=0viewpoint=1minimum_volume=3000maximum_volume=9000 I hope it helps.Bill

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-Green gear lights stays on when gear is up.-App mode not working correctly with ILS.
Hello Amalric,Wow, quite the list! Some of these things are simply limitations of FSX, others have been reported by many of us and still others I haven't noticed, but then I've got exactly 0 hours of real world turbine time and I'm still trying to wrap my complex piston flying brain around flying this thing, so thanks for chiming in with some real-world experience. A couple of quick comments, though...The gear lights work fine for me - they are fairly bright in this representation of the VC when off, but there's no question they go off when the gear is up and on when down. Double check this the next time you fly.As for the autopilot problems you're seeing when flying an ILS approach, could you clarify what you are or are not seeing? I haven't noticed a problem here, but I'm probably missing something.Thanks,Scott

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Did you consider sending that list to Carenado via email? While I think that quite some items are way above the spectrum the plane was aiming at, some others are surely worth a shot.

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-power should be limited by egt at about 10000ft.BINGO!Do you also find you are exceeding max nG % in high altitude climbs?oh should also post some pics up of the real DL ;)
YES! We are never limited by Ng. We are limited by Torque below 8000-10000ft then ITT is the limit. We rarely look at the Ng.
That's quite a long list. I can solve one of your concerns. Here is a copy of an earlier post I did to lower the volume of the fuel pumps-
Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:51 AMCooIP,I played with various sound settings in the sound.cfg Like you suggested. The settings below work pretty well. The pump is not overly loud now that you hear it while the engine is running, but is easily heard with the engine shut off. Thanks again for the tip.minimum_volume=3000maximum_volume=9000Bill

Add the above to lines to the FUEL PUMP section of the sound.cfg. Just in case, make a backup copy of your sound.cfg before making any changes. When your done, the FUEL PUMP section wiill look like this-[FUEL_PUMP]filename=jetfuelpumpflags=0viewpoint=1minimum_volume=3000maximum_volume=9000I hope it helps.Bill

Thank you! I'll give it a try. I would prefer carenado to publish an update :-)

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Hello Amalric,Wow, quite the list! Some of these things are simply limitations of FSX, others have been reported by many of us and still others I haven't noticed, but then I've got exactly 0 hours of real world turbine time and I'm still trying to wrap my complex piston flying brain around flying this thing, so thanks for chiming in with some real-world experience. A couple of quick comments, though...The gear lights work fine for me - they are fairly bright in this representation of the VC when off, but there's no question they go off when the gear is up and on when down. Double check this the next time you fly.As for the autopilot problems you're seeing when flying an ILS approach, could you clarify what you are or are not seeing? I haven't noticed a problem here, but I'm probably missing something.Thanks,Scott
You are right. Gear lights seems to work properly. As for the APP mode of the autopilot, I tried again with the same result: FD goes down to -2000ft/mn and turn around the place. Never saw that...I sent a mail to Carenado a few months ago when the jetprop was not yet finished. As a real world jetprop pilot, I proposed them kind of help regarding systems, avionics and engine behaviour.... They said "why not?" but never went back to me. I'm a bit disapointed by this attitude. I hope they will correct those bugs. I find the plane neaerly unflyable at this stage.

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I registered on the jetprop forum and asked for help during the Carenado jetprop development....that request had more than 500!! views and not a single jetprop pilot replied.....Furthermore many of the points you mentioned would be appropriate for a jetprop CBT program and not a 38$ FSX aircraft.In your first post you state: Congratulations! You guys did a great jobIn your last post you state: I find the plane neaerly unflyable at this stage

Edited by bstolle

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As for the APP mode of the autopilot, I tried again with the same result: FD goes down to -2000ft/mn and turn around the place. Never saw that...
I'm using the RXP 430 and 530, and have flown a boatload of precision approaches with the plane, both ILS and WAAS LPV and the AP has always coupled flawlessly. I'll let one of the guys flying the default GPS' comment further on what you might be setting up incorrectly, as I expect that's where the problem lies. Are you switching from GPS to VLOC with the localizer frequency tuned and active, as it almost sounds as if you're not picking up the localizer?In any case, this isn't a problem most of us are having. Hope someone can help you better than I can here.Scott Edited by tttocs

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YES! We are never limited by Ng. We are limited by Torque below 8000-10000ft then ITT is the limit. We rarely look at the Ng.

This is something I have been wondering about since I started flying the PA46T. Based on what I have read here, I have been using 1000 ft/lbs/2200 RPM for takeoffs. Then for climbing, I drop the RPM's back to 2050 and raise the torque to 1200. It works great but I soon noticed I was running 101.3% on the Ng and I wondered if I was red-lining the engine so I would drop the torque to a point where I was below 100% Ng.This had an effect on my climb performance above about 14,000'. To keep Ng below 100%, I had to start dropping the nose to maintain 140 kts in the climb.Based on your real world experience, what importance does Ng have in power management? Can I set the Ng at 100%+ Ng and not worry about it as long as torque and ITT are in the green? Thanks.Bill

Edited by Lifeguard911

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YES! We are never limited by Ng. We rarely look at the Ng.
By how much do you normally exceed the 101.5% limit? I thought the FCU etc... would keep the Ng from overspeeding....

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so I would drop the torque to a point where I was below 100% Ng.
I thought the limit (redline) was 101.5%, as it is on the Turbine Duke. That's the limit I've always used (as an old flight instructor once told me - green is green), and unlike the Duke, I don't seem to be able to exceed this limit.Scott

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The highest Ng I have seen is 101.3%. In the RW, is does no harm to exceed 100% continously? Is the max RPM on the green arc 100% or 101.3%?Another question I have is on the Prop RPM gauge, there are two yellow arcs. The first is between 400 and 1200 RPM. The second arc is from 1600 to 1800 RPM. What is the second yellow arc used for? Thnks for the answers.Bill

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The highest Ng I have seen is 101.3%. In the RW, is does no harm to exceed 100% continously? Is the max RPM on the green arc 100% or 101.3%?
The thinking on 100% being max comes from the mathematical world, the physical one does make use of normal values above that limit. But you may look at this site www.jetag.ch where the 01 Aircraft General doc (at 'Training Manuals') lists some 101.6 as MCT. So you are on the safe side and the JetProp does not exceed that limit as far as I remember.The limit in that doc may refer to the -34 engine, but I don't think that the -21 differs in that aspect.
Another question I have is on the Prop RPM gauge, there are two yellow arcs. The first is between 400 and 1200 RPM. The second arc is from 1600 to 1800 RPM. What is the second yellow arc used for? Thnks for the answers.
I could be totally wrong, but the first one may be used at taxi, while the yellow ranges may give you effects of resonance and therefore should be avoided as a continuous operating regime. So you may pass them, but not run them for long. This happens on some other planes too, so it wouldn't be uncommon.

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Hello Amalric,Wow, quite the list! Some of these things are simply limitations of FSX,
When will people stop using this lame excuse?...was applicable a few years ago...now not so much

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Un-flyable?!?!"You can satisfy some of the people some of the time..."That's just crazy talk. It had some bugs, but very minor ones. I was never lead by Carenado that this project was a mega one... say on the lines of the Flight One's Citation Mustang (Although, please let the C90 be such a thing!). Allot of that was fixed and IMPROVED by some of the members here doing mods for the plane out of their own good will. But its a great plane in my opinion.BSTOLLE: That's how it works... you invite everyone to the party, then they get mad at you for the food... It's just part of being human I guess!

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HawkDSL made a point there. And Bernt already pointed out that the combination of

In your first post you state: Congratulations! You guys did a great jobIn your last post you state: I find the plane neaerly unflyable at this stage
is at least to be called unique. :(
Some of these things are simply limitations of FSX,When will people stop using this lame excuse?...was applicable a few years ago...now not so much
Well, FSX came out late 2006, so I doubt that e. g. the engine model was changed much since then. Acceleration tweaked a few things I guess, but that's about it. But, on other things, you are right, some big names have rendered that sentence a default one. However, Carenado isn't a frequent user of that one in my eyes.I can see some valid and 'think about' points in the OPs list, some of which don't belong to a 30+ Dollar FSX addon though, but I also see some stuff which I don't get as error here (gear lights for example, they are working fine) and some others which I don't try, because I don't try lowering my flaps when the battery is off. Besides, now I've tried and the flaps of course stay up on the external model. -_-See the limitations of the FSX engine model on other titles, which receive the reference status for whatever reason. http://forum.avsim.net/topic/362241-oil-temp/ Screenshots included.I think some devs established workarounds on the most apparent flaws. But all of them come with a tradeoff.

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When will people stop using this lame excuse?
Dunno. When will people stop posting dismissive, cliched responses with words like "lame" in 'em? When will FSX not have any limitations?Seriously man, read everything I wrote including the part of the same sentence where I thank him for bringing his experience to the party, and look at what I was responding to - don't just pull a small piece of one sentence out and grind your favorite axe against it. The OP put together an interesting list, but it was a pretty mixed bag containing some reasonable, some already reported and even fixed, some darned hard to do in the context of a moderately priced FSX add-on, some hey I never thought of that, and some gee that seems to work fine for everyone else, perhaps you should look again. Most of us responding have tried to stay on the positive and helpful side. Something to consider, that.Scott

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and unlike the Duke, I don't seem to be able to exceed this limit.
Did a flight in the T-Duke last night just to play with some comparisons. Hmm... I swore that I'd exceeded 101.5 on the Duke in the past while learning to come to grips with managing the turbine, but try as I might, I couldn't exceed this last night so maybe I mis-remembered.I don't do a lot of virtual flying on hot days (I fly mostly in northern latitudes, spring and fall) so on most days I'm at or below standard temps. Under those conditions, neither the Duke nor the JetProp implementations seem limited much by ITT. If I push for maximum power in climb, it's all torque limited down low, and bumping right up against Ng as I climb higher.Guess I'll have to do some summer flying to check out hotter temp behavior. I hate hours of bumping through summer turbulence, but with these planes going up to the flight levels it won't be so bad... :-)Scott

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If it's not an old worn PT6 it shouldn't be ITT limited with the present OAT. E.g. on the 208 the PT6 is flatrated to over 40°C.

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I own two Carenado planes and my experience is that while they are enjoyable, Carenado seems to be in the habit of just producing one plane after another and doing very little to solve reported bugs after release. For that reason I have held back on buying more Carenado, would have bought several more.

 

Another thing people have not noticed is that turning the value adjustment knob on the PFD 2D panel does not work. Reading values of the G500 off the PFD is difficult during flight, either you zoom in and don't see anything else or zoom out and don't read the values. For that reason I dock the PFD (G500) on a 2nd monitor. The PFD there is mostly operational but not quite as the one on the VC. For example, you can click on the buttons to select HDG/CRS/ALT change but when you go to turn the knob to adjust the value is does not change. You have to use the knob on the VC instead which may be difficult at times because of the yoke.

 

It also seems impossible to have the knob operational when the simulation is paused. When paused you can see the ALT/CRS/HDG buttons (and the other buttons) are active, values are sent to the simulator engine but when you use the knob in PAUSE the +/- adjustments are not forwarded to the simulator engine.

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Indeed the Jetprop is a lite version. Well above Wilco but just below Milviz. We can only be grateful that a Jetprop that fakes it until it makes it is given to us. Carenado CAN make a V2 but then buyers would complain on paying an additional fee if they charged an arm for the V2. 

 

-Tristan

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I own two Carenado planes and my experience is that while they are enjoyable, Carenado seems to be in the habit of just producing one plane after another and doing very little to solve reported bugs after release. For that reason I have held back on buying more Carenado, would have bought several more.

 

Another thing people have not noticed is that turning the value adjustment knob on the PFD 2D panel does not work. Reading values of the G500 off the PFD is difficult during flight, either you zoom in and don't see anything else or zoom out and don't read the values. For that reason I dock the PFD (G500) on a 2nd monitor. The PFD there is mostly operational but not quite as the one on the VC. For example, you can click on the buttons to select HDG/CRS/ALT change but when you go to turn the knob to adjust the value is does not change. You have to use the knob on the VC instead which may be difficult at times because of the yoke.

 

It also seems impossible to have the knob operational when the simulation is paused. When paused you can see the ALT/CRS/HDG buttons (and the other buttons) are active, values are sent to the simulator engine but when you use the knob in PAUSE the +/- adjustments are not forwarded to the simulator engine.

 

"Another thing people have not noticed is that turning the value adjustment knob on the PFD 2D panel does not work. "

 

** Works ok for me

 

 

 

"Reading values of the G500 off the PFD is difficult during flight, either you zoom in and don't see anything else or zoom out and don't read the values.

 For that reason I dock the PFD (G500) on a 2nd monitor."

 

** Me too .. all working on 2nd monitor

 

 

 

"The PFD there is mostly operational but not quite as the one on the VC."

 

** my testing... all ok , no problems.

 

 

"For example, you can click on the buttons to select HDG/CRS/ALT change but when you go to turn the knob to adjust the value is does not change.

You have to use the knob on the VC instead which may be difficult at times because of the yoke."

 

** There are click spots to remove the yokes.

** Mine works ok on the 2D popup on second monitor .. all ok here.

 

 

"It also seems impossible to have the knob operational when the simulation is paused. "

** No problems here.

 

 

"When paused you can see the ALT/CRS/HDG buttons (and the other buttons) are active, values are sent to the simulator engine but when you use the knob in PAUSE the +/- adjustments are not forwarded to the simulator engine."

 

** all working ok here .. paused or unpaused values are updating from VC and 2D and from 2D to VC ... All ok here

 

 

 

 

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