If traffic is light, you want the aircraft to land and get off your scope as soon as you can. Depending on the controller and local instructions, they may give you a lifting of speed restrictions.

 

On the flip side, if you are given a speed restriction of below 250 knots on descent, it does not mean you can speed up to 250 once below 10,000ft (it has happened before)

ATC may approve a higher speed if required for perfomance reasons.

 

Not in the US. ATC does not have the authority to grant a higher speed.

 

FAR 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

 

ATC is not the Administrator. That authorization from the Administrator comes in the form of a waiver that would be part of your company's op specs. ATC should already know you might need faster based on type. Only you know if you'll need it because ATC doesn't know your weight.

Again in the CRAG for the US it specifically states "ATC may approve a higher speed when required for perfomance reasons"

 

Sorry that should read CRAR not CRAG but I'm on my phone and can't edit it

Country Rules and Regulations (CRAR)

United States

 

General Below 10000ft MSL 250KIAS

Airspace Class B Airspace 250KIAS

 

Class C or D at or below 2500ft AGL within 4NM of AP 200KIAS

Airspace underlying Class B airspace or in a VFR corridor designated through Class B ASP 200KIAS

 

Note : If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed above, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed. Speed restrictions shown in AOI pages indicate the basic restriction: "MAX 250KT below 10000ft MSL” only.

Yes. Those are in YOUR OP SPEC. That means you have the waiver.

 

The issue arrises here when a pilot wants to go faster than 250kias below 10,000 MSL, but has no operational necessity to do so, and does not have prior approval from the Administrator (the waiver). There's a misconception that ATC can approve faster speeds, but that is not true. ATC is NOT the Administrator, and does not have the Administrator's authority.

You maybe never got asked by ATC about your speed, but I can assure you the correct procedure is to inform them that you need to exceed 250 and have them grant you a clearence to do so

Lets look at 91.117

Sec. 91.117 — Aircraft speed.

 

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

( B) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph ( B) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.

© No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

 

Take note of section d. This is the reference used during initial qual. Once again, by aircraft type(DC10 is a heavy), he understands why I'm above 250. Now, I have been asked by ATC was i able to maintain a min speed of 250 due to restrictions.

 

They call you HEAVY be because of your wake turbulence category noton the speed you may or may not need to fly that day.

Exactly, the worst wake turbulence is created when a (heavy) is heavy, slow, and dirty. The quicker you accel to a safe speed and clean up, the better.

 

In 10 years of flying the 10, I've never requested above 250 nor have I known anyone to ask. In other countries, I've flown some departures that had max speeds or tight turns. In that case, I accel to flap retract speed and stay configured. This gives me bank protection atleast up to 30 degrees and keeps me from spilling out of the turn. Once clear of the turn or restriction, I speed up to clean min maneuver. You don't want to fly around with the slats hanging just to stay at 250, you get into slat vibe which can cause damage if you stay in that regime too long. Even the thrust reverser restrictions at night at EDDF, I still went to reverse idle.

I have posted the section from the CRAR which shows US ATC may waive the speed restriction for perfomance reasons.

 

As for your comment about FRA, what's that all about?

 

At FRA they ask you not to use more than idle reverse except for reasons of flight safety... You say you still used idle reverse? So you complied with the request in the AOI? Well great :)

 

Carter, they are not OPS SPECs, it is from the CRAR Country Rules and Regulations... Which are not DLH specific. As G550 points out it is a US Regulation that you may exceed 250 knots below 10,000 feet if your minimum safe airspeed is above 250. So as such no approval from the Administrator is required, this is directly from your FAR's and is in the Jeppesen Text Pages, and in the LIDO CRAR.

 

 

It is what your Government have issued and LSY have published, just the same as Jeppesen publish their text pages.

 

If you speak to someone at FedEx and the NorthWest feeder they can tell you the same thing.. as they dont use Jeppesen products.. but use charts from Lufthansa Systems and as such will have access the Country Rules and Regulations (CRAR) in the same format.

Even the thrust reverser restrictions at night at EDDF, I still went to reverse idle.

 

NOISE ABATEMENT

See CRAR Germany and in addition;

2200-0400‡ expect CLR so that final track will be reached latest at 18NM (RWY 25L/C) or 19NM (RWY

07C/R) which corresponds to FMS points DF622 and DF652 - in addition expect CLR to descend below

FL70 only 6NM before this points - adjust speed 200-220KT when leaving FL70 and perform continuous

descent whenever possible.

From 2200-0400‡, approaching ACFT shall wait for CLR with infromation that final APCH tracks can only

be reached at a distance of 5NM (RWY25C/25L) and 5.1NM (07C/07R) in the front of THR.

These final approach points correspond to the GPS/FMS waypoints RATRU (RWY 25C), TITUT (RWY 25L),

TIXAK (RWY 07C) and BOGVO (RWY 07R).

In addition, pilots should be prepared not to expect a descent CLR below FL70 until 6NM prior to reaching

KUGUV and/or ORVIV (RWY 25C/25L) and 6NM prior to reaching ULNOK and/or IBLUS (RWY 07C/07R).

Pilots shall adjust their speed accordingly (APPROX 200-220KT when leaving FL70) and are urgently

requested to conduct the descent from FL70 as continous descent, whenever possible.

These pocedures may not be applied:

- to flights with STS/HOSP

- in meteorological conditions such as CB, TS.

- emergency

In case that R-NAV APCH procedures cannot be applied due to absence of R-NAV equipment, pilots will

be issued with a CLR for an ILS APCH.

In case of ILS being not AVBL, i.e. for clearance for non-precision approaches, approach control will issue

descent CLR after 4000ft.

Reverse:

Do not use more than idle reverse if possible at all times.

 

Thank you for complying with the AOI :)

Yes. Those are in YOUR OP SPEC. That means you have the waiver.

 

The issue arrises here when a pilot wants to go faster than 250kias below 10,000 MSL, but has no operational necessity to do so, and does not have prior approval from the Administrator (the waiver). There's a misconception that ATC can approve faster speeds, but that is not true. ATC is NOT the Administrator, and does not have the Administrator's authority.

 

Errr no they are not my OPS Spec, they are actually the US Federal Aviation Regulations.. Take a look at FAR 91.117 part D.

 

No need to be speaking to any Administrator as it is already an established FAR.

DLH_FRA

 

I don't know what the CRAG or CRAR is. I don't fly in Europe. It would be about the same as me starting to spout off acronyms that are specific to the plane I fly: you aren't likely to know what they are. So, my apologies for making the assumption that you were quoting your company manual. Ultimately, I don't really care what some European rule book says about flying in the US, those are guidelines to keep you within the rules of flying in the US.

 

FAR 91.117 is the actual rule. The funny thing about Part D is that it points to necessity based on the published minimum safe speed for the aircraft. That number didn't get pubished in a US approved manual without FAA approval, which means it has the approval of the Administrator. It's just a circle back around to Part A. These types of things get amended to the FARs to speed up the process and to avoid ambiguity.

 

Please stop pointing to European guides about rules in the US. If someone wants to know a rule about flying in the US, they need to look in the FARs. Other publications are irrelevant, other than "gee, that's neat to know."

CRAR is the publication of all rules country by country.

 

I guess your airline does not cough up the money to provide it to you?

CRAR is the publication of all rules country by country.

 

I guess your airline does not cough up the money to provide it to you?

 

You know you come off as a troll, right?

I really cant be bothered with this anymore.

 

I tried to answer the OP's question... I did not come on here to have an argument.

As for your comment about FRA, what's that all about?

I don't read the CRAR nor are we required to carry it. as long as i follow ICAO rules, the general planning flip for what ever country, and have a certificate in my home country, I'm covered. I only mentioned it because I heard it on ATIS one night. It actually stated "no reverse thrust". The reg you posted is not in the pubs we carry. All the years flying through Germany, I was never violated. Germany is big on noise. At EDDF, noise fine plots were posted all over in base ops. Majority of those belonged to C-17s. Never was I sent to the penalty box over rudesheim to hold. EDDF was fast and challenging for first timers. First place I had to deal with speed management. I was too accustomed to configuring and slowing early.

 

I did get queried once while departing. I had a new pilot in the left seat while i instructed from the the right. We were empty and headed up to ETAR. We departed 18, which i think was 17 back then. After takeoff at accel height, the left seater stated " climb power, N1 hold, vert me up, bug me up". I hit the climb button, selected N1, rotated the vert wheel to 1000 waited a moment, and dialed 250 into the speed window. I went back to monitoring the departure and speed. Suddenly the controller stated "reach 965, climb, continue your climb there is a recreational aircraft area ahead of you. I looked at the FMA and the pitch mode indicated a green ALT HLD. I quickly dropped the F bomb as i verted it back to 1000. I looked over at her and said, "see how easy it is to get in trouble at Frankfurt". The flight guidance system was known to do strange things sometime. I thought for sure i would get violated. I just reminded her that no matter what the flight director commands, always ensure the plane is doing what you desire. After the flight, I never heard anything out of it. That vert wheel acts as a vvi when you are not in vert speed. For some reason it rolled back to alt hold.

 

Great chat though, no need for people to get upset. I always follow FAA rules when in any country unless there are country specific regs. Our pubs address country specific or nation agreement items. We carry these pubs for every region of the world. These pubs tell you things like how to file, who to contact, country entry procedures, customs requirements etc. We look over these for each country we are flying too/thru. We also have them readily available since each jet have these pubs.

The CRAR is from the Lido Route Manual it is basically the text pages that Jeppesen produce but the LSY version of it.

 

We have the follwing parts to it: -

 

Introduction

 

Preflight

 

Inflight

 

Aerodromes

 

Rules and Regulations

 

Meteorology

 

Navigation

 

Communication

 

Legends and Tables

 

Abbreviations

 

Index

 

Regional Supplementary Information - Within this section it highlights any specific differences from ICAO procedures

 

Country Rules and Regulations (CRAR) - Within this section it highlights any specific differences from ICAO procedures

 

We then have the terminal charts, enroute charts and emergency sketches manual - this forms what is called our OM - C or "route manual" this is required to be approved by the authority.

 

But all and all the general part is very good reading has some good information in there, and makes it easy to find differences in how a country operates (such as the US and speed restrictions)

 

Now that we have the electronic route manual, the whole thing is very user friendly as it is all hyperlinked and searchable - and the best bit of all no paper updates!

 

But I agree.. it's good to have a chat and not something to get upset over.