Would you like to see more Business Jet in FSX?

[Barnstormer1 0]

Ron, If it were easy we all would be doing it! :) I'm sure you guys have the talent.

[Eric Tomlin 10]

Learjet 45-

 

I've been trying to woo a developer to create a quality LJ45 for quite some time. I've been making LJ45 panels (full scale sim panels and components) and selling them like hotcakes all over the world over the past 1.5 years. I also work hand in hand with a software dev for the P1000 suite that we use in our full scale LJ45 sim but to date, we only have the default LJ45 aircraft to work with (which is actually pretty nice for default aircraft and works well when finessed a bit and then used in a full scale sim environment). If any developers are reading this and wondering and doubting the LJ45 viability, check out Hangar45 (www.Hangar45.net) a non-commercial site dedicated solely to the building on full scale LJ45 sims. If any devs would like to know more about the project and other pertinent info, you can contact me via EricT@FlightLevel180 DOT org.

[Boeing or not going 578]

Do your panels integrate with the vc of the default learjet?

[Caribpilot 56]

Why is it harder to produce a BJ than a 777 or 737? Everyone seems to be producing the same things and competiting but it does no good to the progression of this hobby. If you think about it, there hasn't been anything completely NEW in years. The "new" products are simply updates to older models we are familiar with. The only time IMO that something new was introduced was with the Cessna Mustang and Citation X 2.0. There were other products such as those created by Carenado which also introduced something different to the typical airliner that was of superb quality. The one airliner product that I think should have been done YEARS ago (To the Highest Quality and Realism) is only now coming to fruition ( Airbus series from Airsimmer and FSLabs ) When these products are out it will truly bring something new to the table.

Nonetheless, Business/Private jets are quite lacking and I only wish that someone would delve more into these products. From this poll it seem Hawker/Beechcraft and Bombardier are in high demand and I firmly agree with the fact that we need some long range jets as well. Nearly all Cessna products have been made with the exception of a few ( Sovereign, CJ2,3,4 etc) But Bombardier is none existant and to my knowledge they haven't been against their aircrafts being made for FS.

Now I hope I dont start a storm by mentioning this but I would like to briefly touch on the Gulfstream topic. I know they have been very much against having their products made for FS, but I am wondering if anyone has ever investigated the reasons why and whether or not they would be willing to cooperate under certain terms and conditions?. Have they been formally approached on the topic of MSFS? I am not as enlightened as you developers out there but if anyone has more info on this and would be willing to share..it would be appreciated.

[Jkuzzie 5]

Why is it harder to produce a BJ than a 777 or 737? Everyone seems to be producing the same things and competiting but it does no good to the progression of this hobby. If you think about it, there hasn't been anything completely NEW in years. The "new" products are simply updates to older models we are familiar with. The only time IMO that something new was introduced was with the Cessna Mustang and Citation X 2.0. There were other products such as those created by Carenado which also introduced something different to the typical airliner that was of superb quality. The one airliner product that I think should have been done YEARS ago (To the Highest Quality and Realism) is only now coming to fruition ( Airbus series from Airsimmer and FSLabs ) When these products are out it will truly bring something new to the table.

Nonetheless, Business/Private jets are quite lacking and I only wish that someone would delve more into these products. From this poll it seem Hawker/Beechcraft and Bombardier are in high demand and I firmly agree with the fact that we need some long range jets as well. Nearly all Cessna products have been made with the exception of a few ( Sovereign, CJ2,3,4 etc) But Bombardier is none existant and to my knowledge they haven't been against their aircrafts being made for FS.

Now I hope I dont start a storm by mentioning this but I would like to briefly touch on the Gulfstream topic. I know they have been very much against having their products made for FS, but I am wondering if anyone has ever investigated the reasons why and whether or not they would be willing to cooperate under certain terms and conditions?. Have they been formally approached on the topic of MSFS? I am not as enlightened as you developers out there but if anyone has more info on this and would be willing to share..it would be appreciated.

 

Agreed! Very well put. The thing is, people don't seem to be intrigued by the biz jets as much as the large (and well known) airliners, or the small planes to be able to go anywhere. I actually did a little test with it, and my conclusion was that people think of business jets as small props that require large airports, and that the fact that there are airports are built around airliners or GA planes appeals to them: there is a completely different set of scenarios for both styles of planes. That doesn't exist with biz jets (well, maybe those factory-airports or regional ones) so the appeal is less. I think a mass-advertisement of business jets need to be put in place, to appeal to people, because I personally think biz jets are the most fun to fly.

[WarpD 824]

147 individuals responded to the poll. Just imagine how that translates to sales figures....

[N400QW 205]

Spoken by someone who knows... :Nerd:

[Chock 17,769]

I would like to briefly touch on the Gulfstream topic. I know they have been very much against having their products made for FS, but I am wondering if anyone has ever investigated the reasons why and whether or not they would be willing to cooperate under certain terms and conditions?. Have they been formally approached on the topic of MSFS? I am not as enlightened as you developers out there but if anyone has more info on this and would be willing to share..it would be appreciated.

 

One or two developers allegedly received stroppy letters from the legal department responsible for control of the Gulfstream's patents (that being General Dynamics if I recall correctly), telling them to 'cease and desist' making a Gulfstream model. And again, if I recall correctly, I think Eaglesoft was among the recipients of one of these letters, although their developers would be better able to confirm if that was in fact the case.

 

I think it is the notion of the aircraft manufacturer wanting to maintain the exclusiveness of Gulfstreams which is behind it, since even plastic model kit makers of the likes of Revell and Airfix had to abandon plans to make model kits of Gulfstreams. GD are also famously rather protective of their patent on oval-shaped windows (notwithstanding the fact that the last time I checked, the Vickers Viscount seemed to have windows which were oval shaped). Having said that, there is an Abacus Gulfstream, or at least there was the last time I checked, but it was somewhat basic in appearance, as the Abacus ethos is largely one of 'cheap and cheerful', which certainly does make one wonder why they appear to have got away with it.

 

Most developers are well aware that this is a touchy subject though, and so they probably won't even bother going there. I daresay that lots of people are unaware that any commercial or freeware model aeroplane does in fact need the blessing of the real aircraft manufacturer in order to be legitimate if it is an obvious replica, but most aircraft makers are aware that it amounts to what is effectively free publicity for their corporate identity, and are thus more amenable on the matter, but even in those cases, that blessing is not always one that is gratis.

 

Al

[St Mawgan 1,446]

Actually only 110 said yes and only then that they would like to see more bizjets in FSX. Nobody said anything about buying one!

 

Having said that, if Lotussim did a Learjet I bet the sales figures would be somewhat higher than that!

[Jkuzzie 5]

Thing is, that's a small number compared to the large amount of FSX users, and there have been biz jet failures in the past. CLS's bizjet that they called "Very Light Jet" was a HUGE failure and a damper on a viable company for a biz jet.

[LeeL 272]

I think a Hawker or Learjet would be best because maybe the people that don't want to fly biz jets would get those if they were done well because they are popular and they're in abundance in the real world. I remember Rob saying the PMDG MD11 wasnt too successful because people don't see them everyday at airports, as opposed to a 737. Lears and Hawkers are somewhat like a 737, you see them more than you would Falcons or Gulfstreams. I really could see a Lear or Hawker being done nicely.

 

Lee

 

Maybe if the Hawker was a 350i it would sell. I'd rather see a jet though.

[Chock 17,769]

Yup, a decent large model late variant Lear would certainly be nice to see.

 

Al

[LeeL 272]

Agreed

 

Eaglesoft must do ok with there biz jets. Maybe someone from eaglesoft could shed some light on the biz jet market, what the market is like, what people are looking for. Etc.

 

Lee

[Caribpilot 56]

Well...the response to this poll wasn't exactly the best and I am only hoping this is the case because not as many people visit this section of the forum. I might be mistaken but I was under the impression that products like the Citation X and Mustang did quite well.

CLS VLJ wasn't anything to talk about in the first instance so it doesnt surprise me that it didn't do well. The real Eclipse 500 itself was a failure to begin with.

 

As someone rightly said...perhaps more campaigning or advertising needs to be done. IMO, bizjets are in many cases more complex than the average airliner and alot of attention perhaps needs to be focused on that.

[N400QW 205]

Agreed

Eaglesoft must do ok with there biz jets. Maybe someone from eaglesoft could shed some light on the biz jet market, what the market is like, what people are looking for. Etc.

 

Lee

Ok, we'll attempt to shed a bit of light on the subject but not all of what we know.

 

First, Gulfstream is out of the question for us and we suspect others will experience similar responses.

Second, those who frequent public FS Forums are often vocal about what they wish for but much less participatory when it's time for purchase.

Third, a Full Featured and Complex Corporate offering can, and yes it has, taken up to and over three years to develop for only one FS Version and another twelve months or so for another FS Version.

Fourth, competitors often "duplicate" an original Corporate Jet resulting in "diluted market" and confused public in much the same way as the Commercial 737 market.

Fifth, we are required to pay Licensing Fees to Cessna for each of their aircraft we produce.

Sixth, consumers can denigrate a Corporate offering to the extent that a recoup or even break even point becomes extremely difficult to acheive.

Seventh, we've had to cancel Global Express and several other projects based on personel changes or shortages.

 

That said, we remain committed to this genre and of course are working behind the scenes on what we believe are some really interesting projects. :Nerd: