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A Community Discussion... Please Read

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FSFreeware today sent out the following email to its "friends".QUOTE - Dear Fsfreeware Friends - From 30/1/03 - Fsfreeware Library System Has been updated in order to Provide enough Resources in Terms of Income to keep front of an ever Increasing Demand from our servers. - You are now able to Chooce two Options - - Option 1 - Offers Free Downloads for all at no cost whatsoever - from the usual File Library - but you have to navigate trough Banners and Popups Windows and share a Transfer Limitation of 10 GB Daily - Option 2 - Library Plus Service - Is a Membership Version of the Fsfreeware File Library - with top Downloads Speed available on the Web - Absolutely No Banners and Absolutely No Popups windows - absolutely Clean for Fast and Rapid Pages Load and Rapid downloads as nobody else offer on the web. To Join this Unique Service - a One Year Subscription Cost US$ 24.99 - - you also can Test the System with a Trial Membership for 5 Days at US 4.99 - - This Service is Designed for those who can not Stand Ads and Popups and enjoy Fast and Clean Browsing - No Transfers Limits apply to this Service - UNQUOTEWith just over 5,100 files on its site and doing this, I wonder if AVSIM should not adopt the same approach with the over 26,000 files we have in the AVSIM library? It seems authors of add-on's don't seem to have objections, so why shouldn't AVSIM consider this alternative revenue stream?Okay, before anyone gets emotional, this is an adult discussion of AVSIM's approach and our monthly bandwidth bill (which is huge by the by)... If authors have no problem with this type of scheme, which is also in place elsewhere, then should AVSIM consider the same? Please keep it mature folks.

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Well, obviously if I was given the choice Id rather not pay, but at the same time I completely understand that bills dont pay themselves. I would never pay for service over at flightsim.com, but I would be more than happy to here. I only have one request though. Please only allow paying users to actually post on the forums. Non-paying can view, but not post. That should cut down on alot of the problems we've been seeing the last year or so. Thanks for allowing my input.Craig

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Well, flightsim.com has been doing something like this for years. I opposed the move when flightsim.com did it, and did refuse Nels the right to upload some of my freeware.There is, of course, a difference between this proposal and what flightsim.com. Flightsim.com actually limits the bandwidth available to non-paying customers, making it very hard to get into the site. I typically reenter my password repeatedly for several minutes in order to get in. On the rare occasions that I even bother. I hated it when they went to that system, and pretty much stopped accesssing flightsim.com.I guess my reaction would be to how hard this banner/popup makes getting to what we want. With flightsim.com, it is so hard as to be a turnoff. But how does this banner/popup idea really differ from what Avsim is already doing with adverts? Is it just a matter of "forcing" users to view a few more adverts? I'm not opposed to that. I'm an economist. I know there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Nor am I opposed to a download limit. 10 GB is probably pretty reasonable. Are there any, or many, downloads that exceed that? How would that be handled?Summing up...I'm ambivalent. Is that mature enough for you, Tom? ;) -Basil

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I thought the proposal dealt only with the file library, not with the forums. I strongly oppose your recommendation that only paying customers be allowed to post to forums! :-grr Not even flightsim.com does that. Access to the flightsim.com forum software is via a different logon that the one used to determine access to their file library. Access to the flightsim.com forum software is still completely free.Tom, don't listen to Craig (says Basil, a little less mature than he was moments ago :-hah ).-Basil

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"10 GB is probably pretty reasonable."Basil, I read that as 10 gigs for the ENTIRE non-paying user group per day. We go through 10 gigs of downloads in the first hour or so of the day (at midnight to 1 a.m.) :)

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"says Basil, a little less mature than he was moments ago"Your feelings on the subject are registered and logged. :-lol

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Please dont change my AVsim to a free/pay site. long ago I use to go to "other" sites untill I figured out 99% of what was there was here as well. so at first I came here to download files I located over "there". now AVsim is pretty much my one spot stop. I dont often go to other download sites except to catch the odd file I'm interested in that for what ever reason didnt make it to AVsim.If bills are getting behind and turning to a free/pay site is the only option I'll understand. I'll also mutter and grumble and swear a lot under my breath as well :)but I'll deal with it. I'd much prefer if AVSim could remail a free site.Having FunGrey_Wolf

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Knew this was coming... I'm all for Avsim doing what it takes to support itself. I love it here and would hate to see it go away. However, It feels a bit like biting the hand that feeds. Your libraries are full because of our contributions. Should we start charging Avsim a fee for hosting our aircraft? How about a grandfather clause for certain contributors? or mainstays that have kept this place alive for so long? I will not pay, I make my contributions to this site and community thru thousands of hours of work in modeling and helping others in the forums. If this is what you must do, I will regretfully move on... I just think provisions should be made for certain people, who, without their presence, and contributions Avsim would cease to exist. The users who just troll the forums and libraries should somehow be singled out and made to pay for the use of the bandwidth. Im against it in its present form.joe

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>"10 GB is probably pretty reasonable." >>Basil, I read that as 10 gigs for the ENTIRE non-paying user >group per day. We go through 10 gigs of downloads in the >first hour or so of the day (at midnight to 1 a.m.) :) Ouch! :-eek I obviously missed the import of that limit! I need to rethink this.-Basil

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Sorry Basil, I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes, but I feel it would weed out alot of the immature posts/people that irritate the rest of the group or community trying to make progress or at least keep debates somewhat civilized. I wouldn't be opposed to keeping the forums free if Avsim adopted a 3 strike rule. My original thought was that if Im going to pay for service on this site, I dont want to read posts from the village idiots (Im convinced there are alot of villages in the world looking for their own lost one :-lol). In the end I will pretty much support anything Tom and Avsim as a community decides to do because I wouldnt even know where to begin counting the amount of bandwidth Ive used up in the last few years.Craig

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I agree with your sentiment, but couldn't the village idiot fork over the dough just like the rest of us?And it's been my experience that the village idiot always thinks it's someone else. :)

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I have to agree with Basil. Not many people will want to spend $24.99 (US funds, would be over $40 Canadian) just to be able to post a question that hasn't already been asked or did not have a satisfactory answer. Myself included. Restricting posting to only paying customers would drive many posters (and probably readers) away, "good" people and village idiots alike, when there are so many other flightsim message boards that run for free, even if their file areas are pay-for-access or pay-for-instant-or-adfree-access.I can see paying a yearly fee to download files without limitations, but please don't include the forums in this.That's my 5 cents.

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W.r.t. post#10:Exactly my feelings, I agree 100 %For me personally, it's not the amount of money (I can affort it) but a matter of principle.I think I contribute more than a fair share (in hours) to keep this flightsim hobby alive, and I have always found it the big charm of this hobby that it goes without obligations or strings attached.I do respect the fact that the bills of equipment and bandwith have to be paid, but unless someone can convince me that these costs cannot be covered by other ways than paid subscriptions (general advertising, sponsors, "advertising" for flightsim payware, etc) I don't agree with this.And if it would be impossible to recover the operating costs of the AVSIM library/forum without paid subscriptions, then at least some distinction should be made between regular "contributors" and "downloaders-only".But untill then, I'm against it.Regards, Rob

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The income from banners and (god prevent, all they do is drive people away (which of course limits the bandwidth they use but it can't be the intention) popups has now become so low that unless you do like fs.com and fsfreeware.com and plaster every page completely full with them it's just not enough.I do agree that some distinction should if possible be made between regulat contributors (but how do you define those?) and people who don't contribute but only take.The problem is of course how to define who would get a break.People who have more than X posts in the forums?People who have more than X things in the library?Neither in themselves classifies the value of their contribution.%0

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