Got my rudder pedals! And now I suck even more at landings

[Guest]

Ok, so I got my Saitek Combat Rudder pedals today and I just gave a few landing challenges a try. Not a good idea... I am keeping an eye on the ball too much, I guess, because I don't even land near the runway now. And that bloody ball suddenly jumps left and right and so I slam my pedals left and right and end up in the trees...

 

Sooooooooo... who can tell me how to USE rudder pedals properly? When you go left apply left rudder...? All the time while going left or only at the beginning? And should I 'chase' the ball during landings or not? Should I ALWAYS try to keep the ball centered? I need some basic rudder help badly, haha!

[razorhog703 15]

I would set up longer approaches... this will allow you the time to have everything ready before touchdown. Remember to land at flap speed. I usually try for a 2 nm final, sometimes have to settle for 1nm. Try doing some traffic pattern flying to perfect the proper speed and desent rate. Practice makes perfect no matter what weather conditions.

 

But thats just me...

[RamonB 449]

Jaroen: I know exactly what you are going through. The first time I got pedals I almost gave up on FS2004.

 

It took me a long time and uncountable crashes. Until I got the feeling (forget chasing the ball) and relationship between ailerons and rudder input.

 

Taxi the airport with pedals only, at different speeds.

That helps you to feel how much input you need, it will be different for each aircraft type.

 

Razorhog's advice is very good. Practice Patterns, start with Clear weather.

 

There are many posts here on slips, acrobatics and crosswind landings by expert guys.

 

Couple Links:

Understanding the use of rudder: Its most important use is preventing yaw

http://www.empire-aviation.com/flight-instructors/john-e-mclain/understanding-the-use-of-rudder.html

 

Rudder Coordination

http://www.pilotworkshop.com/tips/pilot_training_rudder.htm

[dburne 2]

LOL.

 

I myself when landing, only use the rudder pedals for minor heading corrections - I typically get lined up as best as I can beforehand with pitch and roll.

If there is say a crosswind and the nose gets a somewhat out of shape to the heading, I will ease the appropriate rudder pedal until the heading looks more in line.

Can't say that I pay much attention to the ball.

 

Now once you get more familiar with your pedals and how the amount of input you put in relates to how much the aircraft moves related to heading, you may then want to tune you pedals with the CH software, ie dead zones, non linear curves..

 

For mine, I have a fairly small deadzone with a non linear curve, ie inputs around neutral move the rudder less, and as I gradually increase the pedal input then the amount of rudder travel related to my input increases. Seems to give me smooth input when making only minor corrections.

 

Just give it some time, play around with them and you will get a feel for it - then tweak it to suit your tastes.

[AllFiredUp 0]

I want to get a pair of Saitek pedals and the yoke!

[Guest]

Thanks for the tips and advice! Interesting links, Ramon!

 

I just turned on the HUD to see what winds I was getting and that Maule landing challenges has a crosswind of 14 kts with gusts up to 32. A bit too much for a first try, I guess, although I have to say I just finished it with silver while applying FULL rudder right during the entire approach.

 

I will now do some more gentle testing, haha! I already noticed taxiing is a lot nicer with the pedals! And I understand how your feet and hands should work together. It just takes some time to get used to, of course...

 

BTW Those pedals are twice as large as I thought!!! My goodness, what a huge thing it is!

 

BTW 2 I didn't install anything with the Saitek pedals because Windows regocnized them immediately and I doubt if I need that Smart software stuff...? I will see how it goes and if I do need to set a deadzone or not: it seems the default deadzone is quite alright already.

 

EDIT

Wow, taking off with a crosswind is a breeze (pun intended) now!!! Awesome! So much better then having to use the twist rudder of my joystick which has just a few millimeter of 'travel' and hence hardly any precise control! I do notice I am still twisting that joystick on occasion, but it's great have so much more control over rudder now with the pedals! I think I already like it.

[RoboRay 126]

It took a lot of ink-pen jabs at my knees from my CFI before I got a good feel for proper use of the rudder, and we don't have that kind of negative reinforcement here. :Whew:

 

Don't fixate on chasing the ball. It's going to lag a little bit behind what the airplane is doing, anyway. Chasing any analog instrument is going to lead you to over-controlling back and forth. Watch it, but don't focus on it. Just include it in your normal scan of the panel.

 

Practice practice practice! Get somewhere straight and level at approach speed and make some turns, lining up with features on the ground. Try to keep the ball centered and you'll get a feel for when and how much rudder to apply.

 

The really great thing about pedals is it makes slipping so easy... High and fast on final? Swing the rudder over and add enough opposite aileron to hold you level, then the plane will drop like a rock with a parachute.

[Dogstar23 0]

Like with a yoke, flying with pedals you need to make only very small adjustments or you can get in a cycle of bigger and bigger over-corrections until you are out of control. After you land and while you are taxing around, be aware that MSF breaks don't work correctly when using pedals making it easy to go off the runway and crash and hard to steer on the ground (everyone is hoping for a patch soon to fix it).

[razorhog703 15]

"making it easy to go off the runway and crash and hard to steer on the ground"

 

Sorry but I cannot agree with this, with full flaps and proper speed I find that the runways on Flight are more than enough length to properly land. Pressing [X] will slow the aircraft using the brakes and [shift] + [X] will apply parking brake.

 

When in taxi use low power, I rarely go over 13% in the RV, 40% in the Icon and Maule.

[mundie 4]

A technique for steep approaches is to use full rudder in one direction and opposite aileron in the other allows you to descend at a much steeper angle without gaining too much speed.

[dburne 2]

A technique for steep approaches is to use full rudder in one direction and opposite aileron in the other allows you to descend at a much steeper angle without gaining too much speed.

 

Not too mention at times it can be kind of fun to do as well.

 

Welcome to the forums mundie!

[Guest]

BTW I discovered I had me feet on the pedals in the wrong position: I bought these pedals because they allow you to keep your heel on the floor, but I was keeping my entire foot on the pedal, which became hard to do after some time: my feet began to hurt! Now I have my heels on the ground and the ball (?) of my feet on the pedals. Now when I use the pedals I also don't get my heels in that 'grroove' (?) anymore where the pedals move. Feels a lot better and relaxed this way.

 

I also notice giving rudder during turns is becoming a habit very quickly! And when landing in crosswinds it's also quite easy to figure out how much rudder to give without having to look at the ball. The rudder is also great for making small heading corrections during (normal no crosswind) landings!

[Eevun 0]

Ok, so I got my Saitek Combat Rudder pedals today and I just gave a few landing challenges a try. Not a good idea... I am keeping an eye on the ball too much, I guess, because I don't even land near the runway now. And that bloody ball suddenly jumps left and right and so I slam my pedals left and right and end up in the trees...

 

Sooooooooo... who can tell me how to USE rudder pedals properly? When you go left apply left rudder...? All the time while going left or only at the beginning? And should I 'chase' the ball during landings or not? Should I ALWAYS try to keep the ball centered? I need some basic rudder help badly, haha!

 

 

I hear you J Van E. All it takes is time. I have a Logitech G940 system and when i first installed it, i also found it quite unnatural in the beginning. But after a while, i got used to it and realized how much more realistic flying with pedals is. Especially when doing final and landing. During flight, you need only minor inputs to correct your banks.

So, like i said, all it takes is time. Give it some and you shall be rewarded with an even better feeling of flying :)

 

 

Cheers

[LHookins 3,105]

Do these pedals have a "detent" in the centered position? This is the one thing I haven't been able to find out.

 

You already answered my other question, that you can keep your heels on the floor and get more precise control of the pedals. Are you finding it easy to keep a bit of pressure on one pedal in cases where the aircraft wants to roll in the opposite direction? That's a real pain with the "full foot" CH pedals.

 

Hook

[Guest]

Do these pedals have a "detent" in the centered position? This is the one thing I haven't been able to find out.

 

You already answered my other question, that you can keep your heels on the floor and get more precise control of the pedals. Are you finding it easy to keep a bit of pressure on one pedal in cases where the aircraft wants to roll in the opposite direction? That's a real pain with the "full foot" CH pedals.

 

Hook

 

No detent as far as I can tell, but they do centre automatically and the deadzone seems dead on by default, so I have no problem at all gong back to getting the rudders centrered and hence not in use. Touching the pedals also doesn't immediately apply rudder, which is nice because not every movement results in your plane moving around. (BTW I don't know if a detent is realistic but I am glad it doesn't have a detent: that would ruin small corrections and movements and keeping the pedals slightly pressed, I think.)

 

I've been using the pedals very briefly, but going from the 'full foot on the pedal' to 'only the upper part' made a world of difference. Now my feet simply rest on the pedals: when I had them completely on the pedals, I felt a constant strain in my legs. Also making small adjustments was a bit hard because I had to use my entire leg, if you know what I mean. But now I can simply apply a little bit of rudder without any problems and also keeping the rudder in place for a longer period isn't a problem, specially because you can VERY easily set the tension (I have them set up rather softly but not too soft... well, what seems the perfect middle for me ).

 

But again, I only used them shortly, so I think I can give a better and more thrustworthy answer in a week or so.

 

Something else, though: I am used to keeping my joystick on my lap but that's not very convenient now that I actually use me feet/legs for the rudder: I notice I am keeping my legs together a but all the time to keep my joystick steady and that is not great... Maybe I should OR put my joystick on the desk OR maybe I should create a larger base for my joystick so it can sit easily on my lap no matter howI keep it. Something has to change, anyway.

 

Which makes me wonder: how do you guys with joystick use it? On the desktop, on your lap, in front of you or to the side...?