Ladies & Gents-Any news from our former beta testers who might have knowlege?Tim

Try again in several months... :)

Ah, but isn't now the time for the demands for new features (my parents' house STILL isn't in FS2004...) and the thinly veiled threats about what's to happen if those demands aren't met...And then we can start speculating.People can start claiming they're never going to get it and will wait for FS2008...In a few months the questions will start when those same people can pre-order it and where to do so the cheapest :-lol

the first screenshots usually start appearing around March of the year it's released. I'll wait until 03/2005 before expecting to hear or see anything.Erich

"Any news from our former beta testers who might have knowlege?"If the "former beta testers" did have knowledge, the NDA would preclude them from sharing such with you.Greg

I just hope the beta testers do a better job then with FS2004 next time around catching small bugs and making it better then ever.I can wait a while yet for this next sim however - cant imagine doing heavy hardware upgrade again until I can at least run the current one fluently.

"I just hope the beta testers do a better job then with FS2004 next time around catching small bugs and making it better then ever."Yep ;) FS2004 was quite a mess.

I beta tested Fs98 and it worked fine on my computer!So what can I say when the gates opened with crashing systems from others when it was released.Truth is I said nothing!

"I just hope the beta testers do a better job then with FS2004 next time around catching small bugs and making it better then ever."It is not the beta testers job to fix bugs-only to report them-on any product. The beta testers don't make a product "better than ever"-the company that makes and produces it does. If you have issues with a product don't blame beta testers who give a great amount of their time for free...http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

I know, I know - the fact i kinda melted it together is just because the whole flightsim community prides itself about how closely MS followed events on the testing scene (and this site for that matter). That was my impression at least :)Im not saying beta testers are entirely to blame for these things to get through to gold version - but I am puzzled that for instance nobody at all experienced the seasonal CTD just to name one huge bug that countless people I am sure still experiences.Second biggest bug or half truth would be how the ATC works in relation to runways. Only having paralel ones working as they should - wich in a way defeats the "newness" of it since this could be done in FS2002 as well with AFCAD.Anyhoot - as I said, it can only get better, I keep reminding myself that this is only the second generation with AI aircraft and ATC directing and as such this would be fixed for the next one.I stand by my observation that for my sake (from hardware POV), they could skip 2006 and just aim for FS2008 :D

Don't blame any flaw on the beta testers. We all do the best we can and report many issues to Microsoft. At the end of the day its up them what they fix and what they don't.FS10 won't be in beta until sometime next year.. :)

"but I am puzzled that for instance nobody at all experienced the seasonal CTD just to name one huge bug that countless people I am sure still experiences"I believe it was already mentioned in this thread that beta testers were and are still bound by an NDA. Unless you were there, it's a huge stretch for you to assume that the seasonal CTD wasn't observed and reported. For the last time--beta testers don't write the code. They pour their own time into testing, observe, make suggestions, and then those in charge of the business decides what goes in and what doesn't.But I'll tell you--if posts like yours keep coming up, likely the next project will be beta tested by six year olds--because those of us who support families, households, fight illness, AND TEST work our "you know whats" off and really don't want to hear this from anyone. The other alternative is you end up with a $200 sim, because Microsoft--having no one willing to absorb the grief given a beta tester--is stuck hiring BSA's to put the sim through its paces.Lighten up on the Beta Testers--you weren't there, and likely anyone who filled you in on what happened who was wasn't telling you the whole truth. Never trust the honesty of anyone who breaks an NDA...-John

Whether these bugs were experienced or not can not be stated because of the nda. However, consider-just because a "generic" (e.g. any product) beta tester reports something (a bug), or a feature, does not mean it will be considered, fixed etc. Often the manufacturer will state-"yes we know about this one but can't do anything at this point", or we consider that a future feature and wish we could include it but can't implement that right now, or what a great idea-I think we can sneak that one in, or yikes-we didn't know about that one but we will break so much trying to fix it can't do it for this time cycle. I have been a beta tester for several flight sims, add on aircraft, along with non flight sim products-and this is typical for all. A perfect product is an ideal but not possible.Compare single aircraft additions/weather add ins/atc add ins/ which have their own beta tester teams-yet when released due to a now greater number of public/time/usage, things are generally found that may have slipped out. Multiply the complexity of ms2004 which has all these add on features included and much more than a single add in , increase the ratio of beta testers by the same amount-compare to a worldwide release, and I don't see anything unusual going on here.Consider also-a bug to one is a flea to another. While the seasonal ctd is without a doubt there-it only happens at a particular time on particular dates. I for one see many more important bugs and lack of features on my daily hourly flights-that is every time I use the sim-not just during a seasonal change.Instrumentation, flight performance/models that bother me personally more on a everytime basis. These happen every time I fly-the ctd can be easily avoided. Many of these I have yet to see mentioned by anyone-yet they are important to me. For example-your atc complaint is way down on my personal list-I would ask for not being handed off to inappropriate controlling agencies when practicing approaches, being vectored much closer in for a GA aircraft vs. heavy iron,and smart sequencing of flights on approaches to start with. A different procedure for dealing with class D airports vs. C and B. Instruments that look and behave like their real world counterparts has been on my list for years-after all we have pretty good reality on the outside view-but the inside is still in the dark ages in compare. How about icing which is a concern where I live 6 months of the year-having the airspeed magically go to zero due to pitot icing immdediately doesn't make it for me. When I go flying I face the potential of icing much more often than landings of other aircraft on parallel runways..or flying on the day of a seasonal change :-)Do my laundry list of complaints, bugs, and features make the product "bad" or "unusable". No more than I would think yours do.How does the manufacturer who is on a time schedule decide if your complaints are more important than my complaints to fix/add in a given amount of time? No matter what is decided-someone will be somewhat upset that their wish was not implemented.Fs2004 is a great progression onwards as will be fs2006. The ability to request any approach for any airport worldwide from atc is gigantic, amazing (some said it couldn't even be done), and a huge addition of feature and reality to atc, and probably could have been released as a single add in at the cost of the whole product alone. Some may wish to wait 4 years for the next release-but this feature alone has made the sim twice as good for me-I sure wouldn't have wanted to wait 4 more years. I am frankly surprised that more praise hasn't been heaped here, compared to all the infinite needed improvements that will take years to add.I simply know know better value in life than Ms2004 at its' cost. I'd like to take credit-but I didn't make it-just tested it! :-)http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

I see your point Geofa, cheers :)@JohnCi - Geesh, relax man. No it wasnt mentioned or made clear at least that testers are STILL bound by the NDA wich I didnt know extended way beyond a software release really. Yes I know you "only" test and report and isnt envolved in fixing it..I think most people will assume things slipped by in the process of a long testing period when it makes it through to gold release with any product. So no need to get arrogant about it all I think.My guess is, if Microsoft had a better history of releasing fixes (wont say the Patc.. word) for the games these issues would go down easier.I do respect you guys for what you do during the testing fase, and as I said in my first post, I hope the coming version will be even greater in all aspects - I know it will be. :)

"These happen every time I fly-the ctd can be easily avoided".. Huh???? If the CTD is easily avoided, why are so many still ahving the problem? How do we avoid the CTD? Please post your solution, we would greatly appriciate it. Thanks!!