Placing scenery objects, either MDLs or generic buildings can be done with some of the design tools available. Some of the tools are free, some are not. Just as the designing of the MDLs can be done with free or pay tools.

 

Ok...I read through that post twice. I understand more now though I'm sure I still have stuff to understand. I can't say I've found a whole lot of clarity on the uses of the different kinds of files, layers and all. But, if I understand right, I would have to either 1) create scenery specific to the scenery on top of all the other layers (photoscenery in my case) or MDL. Personally, I don't think I necessarily care, though, if someone else comes out with better photorealistic scenery or I switch to another provider (there are several, right?) then I'd like the scenery to show so that would lean me more toward MDL (I hope I have this right).

 

In general my preference would be to:

 

1) Have (gonna avoid technical terms) buildings, trees, etc. around the vicinity of the airports I'm flying into/out of since that's where I'm generally low. Not just the airports but some of the surrounding buildings as well.

2) Wouldn't mind having areas further away.

 

If someone's already got MDL that I can use in a product then great. If not, then I could just use airports like FSDT LAX or Al Wheeler's KSBA though they don't go out beyond the airport. Al posted a nice tool above...Object Studio...that create's the objects 'in place' and works with another tool. It's simple to use, looks like but I wince because you said the tools that can actually create this stuff is usually difficult. To stop my long ramble:

 

1) what MDL is already available?

2) what tools create MDL that are practical for someone who has no clue what they're doing?

3) what does Object Studio create?

I did some searches and some other posts seem to say that UTX autogen does not show on photoreal (e.g. Bluesky)......

 

Well, the following is from page 3 of the UTX manual: "Photoscenery Products. Products that use photoscenery should work very well with Ultimate Terrain X, regardless of the layering in the scenery library. Photoscenery will always override the Ultimate Terrain X vector-based features such as: roads, railroads and water. The Ultimate Terrain X 3D features such as the night lights, bridges and other objects will always be displayed on top of the photoscenery." I was wrong about the roads but it does have other objects like lights and bridges. Just wanted to clarify it does work somewhat with photoscenery but not in the depth you were looking for.

 

Best regards,

Jim

Well, the following is from page 3 of the UTX manual: "Photoscenery Products. Products that use photoscenery should work very well with Ultimate Terrain X, regardless of the layering in the scenery library. Photoscenery will always override the Ultimate Terrain X vector-based features such as: roads, railroads and water. The Ultimate Terrain X 3D features such as the night lights, bridges and other objects will always be displayed on top of the photoscenery." I was wrong about the roads but it does have other objects like lights and bridges. Just wanted to clarify it does work somewhat with photoscenery but not in the depth you were looking for.

 

Hmmm. Now that's interesting. Thank you for taking the time to look it up! I'll give it a try.

Gregg,

 

I use 'Photo Scenery' from Sim Savvy that covers the entire continental USA on a state by state basis. Larry included a little program that will place all the FSX airports (meaning mostly runways and ramps) on top of the photo scenery. Some users say UTX will add night lighting but I don't know that for sure.

 

I use a super simple Flight1 program named 'Instant Scenery v2.0' to place condos, bridges, water towers, office buildings and a few Walmarts and shopping malls around my local airports. Works like a charm and is real easy to use. I have added several large Cargo ships, piers, marinas, etc. along the waters edge. I live in Biloxi MS so I have added most of the large casinos and hotels in the proper spot.I have totally rebuilt Kessler AFB with buildings, hospitals, etc. I think IS has a demo so you can see it in action.

 

If you get carried away you can affect the FPS.

 

Ray

 

I just took this screenshot looking at the port area that I enhanced with Instant Scenery on top of Photo Scenery. I hate to uninstall my scenery to get a comparison shot, but you can load up an approach to KGPT (Gulfport) from the SW and compare the Port area in the shot to the basic FSX.

 

Heh...I went to school on Keesler years and years ago. Al mentioned Instant Object up higher and I saw Instant Scenery. Too bad Larry doesn't make that conversion app public domain.

 

Is it possible for you to send me your creation? Apart from just seeing if it packages nicely, it'd be nice to see Keesler again. If it is packable then i might get Instant Scenery and make some scenery for some of my favorite airports as well. While I don't fly much at night, it would be nice to have lights on the occasions that I do so UTX sounds like it might be useful. I truly have been thinking about Sim Savvy as well. Like I said, it doesn't have to be a 'pure' photoreal solution. Close to the airport you really need some generated scenery to make the landing feel real. Lots of folks are making airports but skipping the scenery around the airport...around final.

Gregg,

 

I sent you a PM asking for your email address. I can send the scenery bgls for showing / not showing the runways. You can check out the Massive Scenery avsim review from last year and see the affect/effect of the runways on or off. The screenshots in the review were using the lower resolution scenery. It was upgraded after the review to 50 cm for the US.

 

Ray

Keesler KBIX approach to 03.

 

 

 

Ray

The OP said he didnt want to hand place autogen. He asked

 

So if I place ORBX PNW above MSE Washington State in my scenery library I will still get photo scenery instead of ORBX textures?

 

And you would need to hope that the auto gen matches the photo below. If not you have trees and buildings on the runways and so on.

 

In the situation your describe, yes MSE would show. But... If the other addon had photo scenery in it's area that would show based upon either a.) it's greater resolution or b.) layering in the scenery library above the MSE. FSX will show the highest resolution and in the case of a tie, then the priority in the scenery library would take effect. Any autogen not assigned to a photo based texture set would not show, as FSX is not processing those "default textures" and any autogen that they may hold.

 

As long as people remember that photo work is just a set of textures to FSX and that autogen is assigned to textures, then some of the confusion should diminish. But 99% of the time, photo work is going to get shown over default style textures.

 

 

1) what MDL is already available?

2) what tools create MDL that are practical for someone who has no clue what they're doing?

3) what does Object Studio create?

 

I think a lot of your confusion will clear up once you grasp that there are two types of objects being displayed in FSX. One group is "autogen" and that makes up the trees, bushes and basic buildings you see scattered about FSX. The other group I call scenery objects. These are either a generic building or a 3d modeled object. Generic buildings are done via XML code. A lot of the scenery objects that you see at airports are generic buildings. These are created from the XML code inside a BGL file and placed by FSX as part of the rendering process. Generic buildings can be excluded or added, but they are not placeable. <--- I'll try to give a quick definition below.

 

3D scenery objects can be seen in payware airports and scenery. Yes, they are in freeware work, I'm just using payware to illustrate how best to look at "model" files or MDLs. If you've seen Al Wheeler's work you are also seeing scenery objects, MDL files created from a design tool. Scenery objects can be what ever your imagination and talents want them to be. But starting out with something basic is the best way, IMO. If you look at Al Wheeler's hangars you'll see a simple design of a MDL file. I like Al's work and have enjoyed them from the FS2004 days. Some of the design tools to make something like a T-hangar would be Gmax (part of the SDKs of FSX) or FS Design Studio by Abacus or a new release you've mentioned, Instant Object Studio (IOS) by Flight1. Proper disclaimer: I "helped" beta test IOS, which with my 3D talents wasn't much help... It works inside FSX or FS9 and is a good way to get going making objects (MDL files).

 

Scenery objects can be placed two ways in FSX, either hard-coded at a specific location via Lat/Lon or from an object library BGL file and then placed with a tool such as Instant Scenery 2. Proper disclaimer: I beta tested IS2. By taking objects and making a object library BGL file you are then able to place them throughout the FSX world. In effect, the objects sit in one BGL file and any placement code (Lat/Lon, etc) is in another BGL file. This allows you to make one t-hangar and place it as many times as you want within FSX.

 

You asked about MDL files, of which there are many available and setup for use by someone who wants to enhance the game. Many were made for FS9, but are still good for use in FSX. Within FSX itself are many available objects that can be placed all around the world. It's just up to how much you want to enhance and how many areas you want to work in.

 

There is a lot of good information out there for those that want to learn. And some people who will help with the learning process. I try (every so often) to help people, just so long as they don't give me the "I don't want to learn, just tell me what to do..." attitude. The geek speak is confusing at first, but after a while it starts to sink in and things come into focus. There is a scenery design forum here at Avsim for any future endeavors.

In the situation your describe, yes MSE would show. But... If the other addon had photo scenery in it's area that would show based upon either a.) it's greater resolution or b.) layering in the scenery library above the MSE. FSX will show the highest resolution and in the case of a tie, then the priority in the scenery library would take effect. Any autogen not assigned to a photo based texture set would not show, as FSX is not processing those "default textures" and any autogen that they may hold.

 

As long as people remember that photo work is just a set of textures to FSX and that autogen is assigned to textures, then some of the confusion should diminish. But 99% of the time, photo work is going to get shown over default style textures.

 

Thanks for that, this is much different than FS9 layers then. And also good to keep in mind.

In the situation your describe, yes MSE would show. But... If the other addon had photo scenery in it's area that would show based upon either a.) it's greater resolution or b.) layering in the scenery library above the MSE. FSX will show the highest resolution and in the case of a tie, then the priority in the scenery library would take effect. Any autogen not assigned to a photo based texture set would not show, as FSX is not processing those "default textures" and any autogen that they may hold.

 

As long as people remember that photo work is just a set of textures to FSX and that autogen is assigned to textures, then some of the confusion should diminish. But 99% of the time, photo work is going to get shown over default style textures.

 

 

Ok...thanks for all that info! I guess the only trick is to ensure that the scenery you create is higher resolution than whatever else is there. I guess you could also disable the layer if you could figure out which one it is but layers very seldom give you any kind of information. Mostly, I just want to have buildings and trees *around* barren airports. It's something that I think is sorely missing from photogen scenery and, from your description, I think I'm starting to understand why. Probably no one, with a commercial bias, wants to go to the trouble to place tens of thousands of objects one at a time. They'd rather create generic things and copy and paste them all over the place.

 

As Ray points out above, someone has written a tool to extract at least some of the info from the FSX default scenery to put it in their own layer. Seems like that tool alone would have commercial viability for someone like me.

 

Well, the following is from page 3 of the UTX manual: "Photoscenery Products. Products that use photoscenery should work very well with Ultimate Terrain X, regardless of the layering in the scenery library. Photoscenery will always override the Ultimate Terrain X vector-based features such as: roads, railroads and water. The Ultimate Terrain X 3D features such as the night lights, bridges and other objects will always be displayed on top of the photoscenery." I was wrong about the roads but it does have other objects like lights and bridges. Just wanted to clarify it does work somewhat with photoscenery but not in the depth you were looking for.

 

Ok...I got UTX. It doesn't seem to add much, if anything, to photoreal areas except for lights at night. Not something that I would recommend for this.

Ok...I got UTX. It doesn't seem to add much, if anything, to photoreal areas except for lights at night. Not something that I would recommend for this.

 

New term, but first another disclaimer: I beta tested the previous UTX products. The term is vector based scenery, utilized in the default scenery style. Vector properties can be lines or polygons. Lines being used for roads or shorelines, polygons for parks or lakes, etc. Since UTX is a vector based product, just as the default scenery is, any photo work gets rendering priority. What will show from UTX over photo work are the scenery objects, such as the night lighting and bridges. Within the confines of the default terrain system UTX offers a lot of bang for the money spent.

New term, but first another disclaimer: I beta tested the previous UTX products. The term is vector based scenery, utilized in the default scenery style. Vector properties can be lines or polygons. Lines being used for roads or shorelines, polygons for parks or lakes, etc. Since UTX is a vector based product, just as the default scenery is, any photo work gets rendering priority. What will show from UTX over photo work are the scenery objects, such as the night lighting and bridges. Within the confines of the default terrain system UTX offers a lot of bang for the money spent.

 

Yeah, I was hoping that the buildings and trees would show up but I guess trees are not vector based and the fact that they omitted any mention of buildings made me doubt. Still, it's pretty impressive.