Hello,

 

The be55 is my first Milviz purchase and I am very impressed, this aircraft joins the hangar with other famous and great addons like Realair ones ! Congratulation. Hand flying the bird is a real pleasure and Garmin RXP integration is really apreciated.

My only regret is lack of DME gauge. Ok, the original one probably doesn't have one, but here, at least in Europe, lot of procedures and airways are built around VOR/DME, GPS is just an extra support to make IFR pilot life more easy in busy airspace.

But in any case, if GPS failed, pilot should be able to come back and to fly the bird with "raw" datas.

 

Could you consider this option in a next update ? Flying a locator or VOR/dme approach with one engine out would be a great challenge....

(In the be55 cab file,I can see an XML dme gauge, but I don't know what it does stand for and how it is used or not)

 

Happy flying from France, thank you

 

Georges Col

Good point, Georges. I'm cheating with the RXP (or my M-Panel) of course, but perhaps there's some other way for a small DME display. There's room left on the radio stack or where the Century AP resides or that LORAN-C display (cool thing by the way).

I think that XML dme must be working in the background.

 

Because on my Saitek radio panel I do get DME and the distance updates and is reported. I know it's cheating :)

 

So you could create a popup to do it as a workaround.

Mind the GPS, even the 'default' one on the B55 offers a DME readout. Stating this because I first thought that only the RXPs can do that. But the dev pointed out the feature on the standard gauges and he's right. That one in the B55 is tweaked and offers the same DME window as the RXP GPS.

 

But the idea to create an extra popup may also be nice of course. I'm cheating with my M-Panel at times.

Mind the GPS, even the 'default' one on the B55 offers a DME readout.

 

Well... sorta. The readout on the GPS displays distance to the waypoint, not to the ground-based station, and works at ranges well beyond when the DME itself is in range. Try flying at significant altitude directly over a VOR/DME and you'll see the difference. At station passage, the VOR distance readout in the GPS will match the distance to waypoint readout and move to (or at least close to) zero. Try this in a plane with independent DME readout and you'll see the difference in slant distance as well as the blank display when the station is out of range.

 

Call me old-school if you want (and I'll be flattered if you did) but I'd still love to have the DME data that's being received actually displayed, independent of the GPS. A showstopper? Hardly, but a WIBNI (wouldn't it be nice if), definitely.

 

Because on my Saitek radio panel I do get DME and the distance updates and is reported. I know it's cheating :)

 

I don't think this is "cheating" at all, rather just individual aircraft customization :-). Didn't realize the Saitek radio panel would display DME info, but it just got bumped up on my "need to buy" list. I love being able to tame some of the autopilot discrepancies between my various aircraft with the Saitek multi-panel, so this sounds excellent to me.

 

Scott

Yeah with the SPAD drivers it really is excellent. The display also allows you to adjust QNH, for DME you can display speed and distance if you desire as well in various combinations.

 

Ebay you can find them half price so buy two :)

One covers Com/Nav and the other covers XPDR, DME, QNH.

Call me old-school if you want (and I'll be flattered if you did) but I'd still love to have the DME data that's being received actually displayed, independent of the GPS.

Scott, I fully support your old school thinking. I'd love to see some dedicated DME gauge in the beautiful B55 VC. Set up a poll and I'm with you.

 

Regarding the slant based differences, I'd say that's an unwanted side effect of the DME system. Why miss those? The vital value will most likely be the one defining how far that station is away and not how far it is when measuring the hypotenuse of the triangle. Smart systems may even correct for that by design.

 

Well, having the smartness of GPS systems and especially the more or less current Garmins in mind, I think they could even add some slant error if you wanted it to happen. This also works the other way around. But, as said, I look at it as a downside of measuring distances with ground based stations, so who would want that? Same goes for the cone of silence effects. They are there, but not because they are good, but inevitable.

 

As an example. Leaving out the inaccuracies and factors of an actual DME measurement, the difference between the straight line on the ground and the one being measured by the DME system (hypotenuse) on a typical approach setup (10mn out, 3000ft AGL) are some 74 feet or 0.012 nautical miles. That's a difference one can't spot on those gauges with their 0.1nm setup. So, where accuracy matters, the old (and new) systems match.

 

On another occasion, one may be 100nm out and 35.000ft high. Then the slant error is some 0.17nm. That's the distance the DME gauge would read too much, as you are only 100nm away from the station. So the old system is accurate enough in practical terms and the corrected GPS values don't differ much to cause any trouble. Means the systems can run side by side with no worries I guess.

 

Being 50nm out, the error at 35.000ft is 0.33nm. The closer you get and the higher you are, the more pronounced the slant error will be. In theory, until you are above the station and only read the error value, your height above the DME. As said, that's the downside of the system and the GPS rules it out if you like.

 

I still agree with your wish. So don't read my stuff the wrong way.

I still agree with your wish. So don't read my stuff the wrong way.

 

Understood.

 

And yes, slant distance is an artifact of a ground-based distance system, not a desired (or desirable) element. I brought it up (along with the reception distance issue - something else that actually favors the GPS' display) only to demonstrate that the GPS readout is really just that, and not a readout of the DME receiver.

 

As IFR certified GPS's like the 430 and 530 are OK'd as DME replacements for approach purposes, from a practical point of view the GPS' display is completely acceptable. As much as anything (other than it being in my comfort zone), I like having a DME display in a VC because it's usually larger and easier to pick out than the display on the unit.

 

Scott

Makes sense.

 

Where would you place the DME gauge, Scott? I was thinking about that one and I wouldn't want to spoil the beautiful optics of that amazing VC. Means the placement should be useful (in view, so the radio stack may be a bit off) but not like 'oh there's a free spot, it goes right here' if you know what I mean.

 

Where would you place the DME gauge, Scott? I was thinking about that one and I wouldn't want to spoil the beautiful optics of that amazing VC.

 

A good question, and one that would be the topic of quite some conversation with the avionics shop IRL. And especially in the VC, it would absolutely have to be in a straight ahead visible location to be useful.

 

It's so hard to retrofit an existing panel like this, and especially one as crowded as the B55s. The obvious candidate for space would be the old Century IV AP. I'd ask if the GPS/Nav and APP switch could be relocated there without chopping things up, and if a DME display could fit neatly in its place.

 

But really... would I spend the kind of money it'd take to do this IRL (or seriously ask Milviz to do it in the sim)? Probably not.

 

If I were spending my real or virtual dollars, I'd probably push for a flight director first. :-)

 

Scott

Yeah with the SPAD drivers it really is excellent. The display also allows you to adjust QNH, for DME you can display speed and distance if you desire as well in various combinations.

 

I haven't tried the SPAD drivers on my multi-panel, as the Saitek driver seems to work well on the GA planes I fly with that, but from what I've read they're the way to go on the radio panels.

 

Two, eh? Hadn't thought about that at all. Interesting (though moderately expensive) idea. :-)

 

Scott

Spad works with the NGX now as well, no effort, just switching the profile.

 

Not expensive at all, $129 inc postage from gadgetbliss, per panel. Other stores though overcharge over $200.

 

Yeah 2 is great because even then I and still switching the top 2 between com1/com2 sometimes.

 

And the bottom I have ADF, DME, XPDR.

 

You could even have 3 if you're dedicated and have enough room, but they are pretty big.

 

Another good thing I learnt on the Spad forums is to assign the DME rotary to the RXP GNS530 since DME doesn't need it. The flip flop can be mapped to 2 RXP buttons as well.

The obvious candidate for space would be the old Century IV AP. I'd ask if the GPS/Nav and APP switch could be relocated there without chopping things up, and if a DME display could fit neatly in its place.

Sounds good. What do you think about that one? http://www.aircraftd..._N7153N-DME.jpg It's from here. http://www.aircraftd...Baron/33977.htm Yes, I also like the extra CDI.

We're not doing a DME gauge. Sorry. I should have stopped this one eons ago.

 

The price point that we're in is too low for us to continue to refine the product and, to be honest, product hasn't exactly been flying off the shelves... We will do one more SP to fix at least some of the "list" but no more than that...

We're not doing a DME gauge. Sorry. I should have stopped this one eons ago.

 

Understood. Note my comment here: "But really... would I spend the kind of money it'd take to do this IRL (or seriously ask Milviz to do it in the sim)? Probably not."

 

The price point that we're in is too low for us to continue to refine the product and, to be honest, product hasn't exactly been flying off the shelves...

 

I'm disappointed to hear that. This is too good a plane for that - everyone should get one! :-)

 

Scott