Hi,

 

Today I serched for a routing on vatroute and on that one I found it said:

 

CROSS MALBE FL240 OR BELOW

 

My plan was to fly the first part to MALBE at FL240 and then to do a step climb to FL340.

I tried to tell that the FMC however after 20 minutes I hadn't a solution and I ended up doing that manually.

First I tought I could enter 240/340 in the F-PLN INIT page however the FMC calculates the step climb directly after the first top of climb, as the aircraft is light enough to climb to FL340 initally. It seemed if ther isn't any need for a step climb the FMC won't let me do one.

Then I tried to enter every alt restriction to MALBE manually, however the top of climb and the step climb where in the same position as before and not after MALBE.

I wanted to ask if there is any way to do tell the FMC that I will climb after MALBE to FL340 without editing every waypoint's altitude in the F-PLN page?

 

Ofcourse I can do the step climb manually after passing MALBE by changing the cruise altitude in the F-PLN INIT page but I am looking for a way to tell the FMC that I want to do that climb there and then. Just to ensure a correct ETA/EFOB/whatever calculation.

 

Thanks in advance

 

John

Oddly enough, you're simply doing it the wrong way and making it more complicated than it needs to be (but that's life until you learn all the proper ways).

 

You add that restriction on the LEGS (FPLN) page as a crossing restriction. If you click on MALBE (whichever L-LSK is next to it), it will bring you to a page that will allow you to tell it what the restrictions are (which are on the R-LSKs, if I remember correctly). Here, you place the restriction in the appropriate box.

 

In the INIT pages, specify your initial cruise alt (doesn't matter how long you'll be at 240 until MALBE, that's just an intermediate restriction, not your initial cruise). Don't worry about the fuel calcs, as the system will automatically take them into account with the waypoint restriction at MALBE in the FPLN.

Hi Kyle,

 

Thanks for your answer! Okay, just to make sure, in the the restriction page for MALBE (or the next waypoint) I enter FL360?

 

Thanks

 

John

Thanks for your answer! Okay, just to make sure, in the the restriction page for MALBE (or the next waypoint) I enter FL360?

John,

 

no you do not enter FL360 as a restriction, since this is your cruising level. The FMC will calculate the climb automatically for after passing MALBE if you have entered it the way Kyle described.

 

Cheers,

Markus

I would enter 240/340 in the cruise altitude page. Then there are 2 possibilities. 1) Keep the altitude on the MCP on FL240 until you pass MALBE and the dial it up to FL340. 2) enter /s240 to the LSK that matches MALBE. This should tell the FMC that you have restricted you S/C to MALBE. More info about the step climb restriction on the MD11 is here http://forum.avsim.net/topic/268339-constraining-a-step-climb-sc-to-a-waypoint/

 

HTH,

Manfred

Hi,

 

You add that restriction on the LEGS (FPLN) page as a crossing restriction. If you click on MALBE (whichever L-LSK is next to it), it will bring you to a page that will allow you to tell it what the restrictions are (which are on the R-LSKs, if I remember correctly). Here, you place the restriction in the appropriate box.

 

In the INIT pages, specify your initial cruise alt (doesn't matter how long you'll be at 240 until MALBE, that's just an intermediate restriction, not your initial cruise). Don't worry about the fuel calcs, as the system will automatically take them into account with the waypoint restriction at MALBE in the FPLN.

 

Thank you very much. That worked as I had imagined it!

 

I would enter 240/340 in the cruise altitude page. Then there are 2 possibilities. 1) Keep the altitude on the MCP on FL240 until you pass MALBE and the dial it up to FL340. 2) enter /s240 to the LSK that matches MALBE. This should tell the FMC that you have restricted you S/C to MALBE. More info about the step climb restriction on the MD11 is here http://forum.avsim.n...-to-a-waypoint/

 

Thank you also for your answer, however I wasn't able to figure out how this exaclty works.

I have attached two screenshoots, one of the INIT page and one of the F-PLN page.

As you can see on the F-PLN page the altitude at the waypoint after MALBE (EBENI) is still FL240.

If I enter /S340 next to MALBE the waypoints before MALBE would also be FL340 and I don't have an alt restriction than.

I am doing something wrong there, but I can't figure out what.

Just for future reference, you can put in the restriction -FL240, the minus indicating at FL240 or below. The reason you should put this in and not just the restriction FL240 at MALBE is because the aircraft may not be able to get to FL240 by MALBE at certain (high) gross weights. If you're particularly heavy, the aircraft won't be able to climb to FL240 and the FMS will continually moan at you regarding it.

 

Likewise, if you had to be at FL240 or above by MALBE, you can enter the restriction +FL240.

As you can see on the F-PLN page the altitude at the waypoint after MALBE (EBENI) is still FL240.

If I enter /S340 next to MALBE the waypoints before MALBE would also be FL340 and I don't have an alt restriction than.

I am doing something wrong there, but I can't figure out what.

 

My bad, you did everything correctly. The thing is, the MD11 logic doesn't step climb if it is less than 200 nm to the T/D (page 108 MD11 FMS manual). Just checked and it seems your route just barely is less than 200 nm from the T/D. I am not sure but it should be possible to force the aircraft up by having /s360 at EBENY, KSC or further down.

 

Regards,

Manfred

[screenshots]

 

Still not right. FL240 is never your cruise altitude on this flight. It's an intermediate restriction. Think of it this way:

 

Ignoring any ATC restrictions, charted crossing restrictions, and so on, what is my initial cruise?

FL340. Good, put that in the CRZ LEVELS (and any steps you'd like to take thereafter).

 

Okay, now, are there any restrictions on the climb up to that cruise?

Yes, there's one at MALBE at FL240. So, put that restriction in the FPLN page as -FL240 and nowhere else. It's not a cruise altitude, it's a restriction on the way to your cruise. Restrictions go on the FPLN page. They're not related to cruise, steps or anything else, ever (...ever, ever).

 

 

 

You can also think of the inverse:

If a STAR has me descend to 6000 and hold that for a little while before I land, do I tell the FMC that's a cruise segment? No. I add it in as a restriction and it can figure it out. Cruise is where I intent to operate my cruise section, regardless of altitude constraints between the ground and that intended altitude.

 

 

There are few things left in this world that are still somewhat simple. As such, don't overcomplicate when you don't need to. :wink2:

Even though MALBE is a good way into that route, I would still not enter FL240 as a CRZ LEVEL but only as a restriction within the F-PLN page. Step climb is a function that is performance based, however that MALBE thing is an ATC restriction.

What's the reason anyway for that level restriction? Surely one could get a higher level way before that fix by asking ATC?

 

Cheers,

Markus

Hi,

 

@Noble I know that, but thanks for pointing it out! :good:

 

@Kyle You got me wrong there. These screenshots didn't represent what you told me to do. These screenshots showed the way sandpatch described, which wasn't working because the step climb is too close to the top of descent. The way you described Kyle worked withouth problems.

 

@Markus I don't know the reason for that level restriction. And I had nobody to ask for a higher level as I have been flying offline. It was also a more technical question ("how would this work/what to enter") for me.

 

Thanks!

 

John

@Kyle You got me wrong there. These screenshots didn't represent what you told me to do. These screenshots showed the way sandpatch described, which wasn't working because the step climb is too close to the top of descent. The way you described Kyle worked withouth problems.

 

Gotcha. Just makin sure. Sorry for the assumption.