Windows 8 - Joystick Megathread problem.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

+1.

 

Although the FSUIPC workaround stopped the lost controller problem with my CH Flight Sim Yoke, the CH CM works just as well (I'm using version 4.55). I created a map for the yoke and then activated it via mapped mode. This routes all controller I/O through the CH driver and for some reason, keeps the controller alive indefinitely in both P3D and FSX.

 

The only problem that I noticed is that the CH CM is a bit finicky about USB 3 ports.

[Blackrat100 33]

After spending weeks reading different threads on various forums about losing my joystick in FSX on Win8 I finally came across a little dll file called dinput8.dll. Just search on Google for it or go to www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?dinput8 and get it from there (the .zip file not the installer).

 

I think it's a file from DX8 - before the trouble started.

 

Place the dll in your FSX folder and let me know how you get on. I've been running this for a few days now and haven't lost my joystick once, whereas before I was losing it after 5-10 minutes of flight.

 

The only other change that it seems to create is that I now don't lose the FSX sound when I click on another window, e.g. FSWidgets Gmap.

 

Here's hoping...

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

The only problem that I noticed is that the CH CM is a bit finicky about USB 3 ports.

 

Now here's something that emphasizes the suggestion further up in the thread about switching USB ports. When I connected the CH Yoke in direct mode (not mapped through the CH driver) to my mobo USB 3 port, it works fine and hasn't dropped a connection yet.

 

USB 3 ports tend to a) not have Microsoft-authored drivers and b ) provide more power to the device if needed than USB 2 ports. My USB 3 port has a Renesas (formerly NEC) driver. Whether a USB 3 port will deliver more power to a USB 2 device is debatable though.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

I think it's a file from DX8

 

Most of online sources supply you with a Win 7 version of DINPUT8.DLL with a different build number than the same file that comes with Win 8. The DLL is provided for compatibility with legacy games and other software that use joysticks, etc.:

 

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itprogeneral/thread/baed2d01-c964-43c3-975b-e1f03192683e/

 

I tried this option and although it works for some people, it made no difference for me.

[brucek 38]

Where do you install the file DINPUT8.DLL to? To the FSX root folder, or a Windows 8 system folder?

 

Thanks, Bruce.

 

[Blackrat100 33]

Put it in the FSX main program folder.

[brucek 38]

Thanks.

[Nice 0]

Now here's something that emphasizes the suggestion further up in the thread about switching USB ports. When I connected the CH Yoke in direct mode (not mapped through the CH driver) to my mobo USB 3 port, it works fine and hasn't dropped a connection yet.

 

USB 3 ports tend to a) not have Microsoft-authored drivers and b ) provide more power to the device if needed than USB 2 ports. My USB 3 port has a Renesas (formerly NEC) driver. Whether a USB 3 port will deliver more power to a USB 2 device is debatable though.

As far as I know USB2 has 4 conection points inside of the port. 2PowerSuppy +5V,-5V and 2 Data transfer contacts. For the USB3 I am not sure if there was any change in suply power but I know that USB3 has slightly diferent port construction then USB2. It has kind of 2modes One for USB3 compatible devices and second one for USB2 devices.. Moust of devices are still moustly USB2 standard so if it has conector USB2 when you plug that kind of device in USB3 port it will work becosue it will conect in USB2 mode becouse as I said before the USB3 is diferent inside that means that USB2 device will slide in postition for USB2 devices and so will only have contact with wires that you can find in USB2 port that meaning it shouldnt provide more power becosue it also could destroy device itself..If you are about to conect USB3 device (USB3 standard suported usally some external SSD and external storage devices) will, due its conector design, achive USB3 conection....that as how I am informed about USB...

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

I don't want to get off on too much of a hardware tangent, but take a look at this first:

 

http://event.asus.com/mb/2010/ai_charger/

 

This software was developed by ASUS, but it also works with a bunch of other motherboards. USB 2 ports are limited to a certain power draw, which can be overridden by software. This issue came up when people couldn't figure out why their USB 2 computer ports wouldn't charge their iPads. It isn't the voltage that matters, but rather the power that the USB port can supply to the device. As per Wikipedia:

 

"A unit load is defined as 100 mA in USB 2.0, and 150 mA in USB 3.0. A device may draw a maximum of 5 unit loads (500 mA) from a port in USB 2.0; 6 (900 mA) in USB 3.0"

 

"Some devices, such as high-speed external disk drives, require more than 500 mA of current^[49] and therefore may have power issues if powered from just one USB 2.0 port: erratic function, failure to function, or overloading/damaging the port. Such devices may come with an external power source or a Y-shaped cable that has two USB connectors (one for power+data, the other for power only) to be plugged into a computer. With such a cable, a device can draw power from two USB ports simultaneously."

[mbucholski 9]

I really doubt this issue is related to USB power supply or USB 2 vs. 3. I'm using the same USB ports for my flying hardware with Win 8, Vista and XP (multi-boot) and I never had even a slightest problem on the two latter systems. Plus - Saitek and CH software, even the device manager, see inputs just fine after FS goes dead.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

It probably has nothing to do with power to the USB device. I was just commenting on the previous post. Basically, the problem was to do with Win 8's support for legacy games and joysticks. It's not just FSX and P3D that are affected by this bug. If you Google "joystick disappears", you will see that happens in some other older video games also under Windows 8. Here is a summary of suggested workarounds, none of which worked consistently for me except the FSUIPC4 approach:

 

1. Modify the power settings on the USB hub, so the OS won't power it down during times of inactivity.

2. Switch USB ports.

3. Use the joystick manufacturer's driver and software to create a button and axis map for the device.

4. Copy a version of DINPUT8.DLL (which BTW, is the DLL in various versions of Windows that supports legacy joysticks, etc.) from a Win 7 installation to your FSX or P3D program folder.

5. Buy a licensed version of FSUIPC4 and set the joystick or yoke up via FSUIPC4 as the documentation recommends.

[mbucholski 9]

Yup, I understand. Yesterday I copied the dinput8.dll into FSX main folder - 40 mins in PMDG MD11, 30 in Airbus X Ex. and so far so good. Fingers crossed.

[greggerm 312]

Question:

Have any Windows 8 users NOT had any trouble with their joysticks?

 

Obviously the issue seems widespread, but I am curious if some have never encountered it.

 

-Greg

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

The disappointing thing is that when Windows 8 first came out, people were posting on the Microsoft tech message boards about the joystick problems. The Moderators (MS employees) told them to fill out a form to officially report the bug. After no action by MS, the threads eventually went dead.

 

Windows 8 has some really bizarre things wrong with it, beyond the superfluous so-called Metro UI. First, you can't start up programs at boot unless they have been "approved" by MS, without completely disabling UAC via a registry edit. If you disable UAC that way, then all the Metro UI apps don't work. People have figured out a way around all this, but why bother? Lastly, if your computer is more than a few years old and your motherboard doesn't sport a UEFI BIOS, don't count on getting into Safe Mode at boot if your graphics card or some other device fails and prevents Windows from booting up. And neither banging on the F8 or Shift-F8 keys works anymore. There's a lot more annoyances than this, but these give you an idea of how a software company can lose its way and make major blunders while trying to adjust to a changing market.

[mbucholski 9]

Yup, I understand. Yesterday I copied the dinput8.dll into FSX main folder - 40 mins in PMDG MD11, 30 in Airbus X Ex. and so far so good. Fingers crossed.

Guess not. 15 minutes of running CS 707 in the background (not minimized) and inputs are dead.