Does anyone navigate using dead reckoning?

[LHookins 3,118]

Ultimate Terrain X USA/Canada should be your first purchase. And then FS Genesis mesh. It will greatly help your roads, rivers, lakes, coastline, etc.

 

Hm, ok, that sounds good. I had a quick look, will research more later.

 

What you refer to is standard VFR navigation.

 

Yes, and thanks, that has a lot of good information. That's pretty much the way I fly as well, including avoiding restricted airspace and considerable pre-planning. I think we all got spoiled having a GPS in all our planes, and the actual dead reckoning techniques have been lost or forgotten. I learned navigation totally backwards: started with GPS, then went to VOR, then NDB, and now doing real VFR. It took buying a plane without a GPS to get me back to where I should have started in the first place.

 

As for permanent markers and nail polish remover, they make markers that can be erased with alcohol. If you're careful with your charts, you can use "dry erase" markers instead, used for white boards which can be erased with a dry cloth. I did extensive laminated map work in the Army and we used china markers, which could be erased by a dry cloth and a bit of rubbing.

 

I think the most important thing I learned from this exercise was to calculate time instead of distance. Since some of the aircraft I fly don't have any kind of distance measuring equipment, and I'm avoiding use of a GPS even though I could add one easily enough, using time is a new experience and has worked out well.

 

Hook

[FSMP 95]

Does trying to fly a complex airliner with little to no knowledge of the FMC or autopilot count?

 

:LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO:

[Manny 1,293]

I used to do it in FS9 and its a lot of fun... particularly if you have a good photo scenery like Mega scenery so cal.

 

I had to do it once for real. I was flying a Citabria to a pvt airport west of DFW... The aircraft had no nav help what so ever.. and this airport was a small strip among a clump of trees. I was struggling to find this airport and I was getting antsy since I was coming very close to having fuel just enough to turn back and return. When I finally saw an aircraft trying to land into a wooded area. That's when I realized the location of the airstrip and turned towads that landing aircraft and followed him to land.

[Great Ozzie 101]

Hi Hook,

 

During the summer of 2009, I flew this route in the A2A Accusim B377: YBBN-NWWW-NFNA-NSTU-NCRG-NTAA-NTTO-NTGJ-SCIP-SCTI-SAEZ (Link to Great Circle Mapper)

 

It was for a SOH Event called "Evita". ADF was permitted (no GPS, Moving Maps permitted, essentially no VOR permitted) but because of the great distances involved, I also used Dead Reckoning.

 

It was quite the gratifying experience, particularly when, after have spent several hours over the water, to see the ADF need swing to the nose within a minute or so of when expected. Conversely, real panic started to set in during the flight SCIP to SCTI when several minutes passed and the needle had not swung toward my checkpoint (the NDB @ SCIR... I had drifted a wee bit south).

 

I had to do it once for real.

 

I was "brought up" in the period just prior to GPS. Dead Reckoning was an essential part of VFR navigation. Of course, Pilotage was used to verify one's position.

 

-Rob

[vgbaron 3,731]

Yes, Hook - actually I do it quite often. most of the time I'll use Plan G but every now and then I'll dig out an old sectional and actually lay out the course lines like I used to do when I first learned to fly. Very few GA autopilots then and no GPS so it was ded reckoning all the way.

 

 

Vic

[betelgeuse 41]

Dead reckoning and pilotage go hand in hand.

Now and again, I get the VFR charts out and plan a flight somewhere just like I did for PPL cross country flights all those years ago.

With the weather information we have these days, you shouldn't go far wrong, even with the default scenery. Lakes and coasts are usually more accurately sited in the simulations than towns so I often use them as my waypoints.

IVAO divisions have some excellent VFR tours - ideal for honing navigation skills.

[Johan_Dees 84]

Yes of course, on familiar terrian, and with some extra scenery stuff to recon to, with a propliner. Never with a jet, goes to fast and to high.

I suggest you read the propliner tutorial at calclassic.com to get a good insight on how to do it.

[LAdamson 240]

Yes i do it from time to time both in fsx and in real world. I think that relying too much on gps tend to make you loose the basic of navigation.

 

I don't have a problem with GPS. In fact, I see no reason not to use it these days for real world cross country flight, and especially to areas that you haven't flown to before. For every real world cross country, I'd look at current sectionals for the intended route, and points of interest. It's all mountainous out here, and I seldom just follow low altitude VFR airways. I use internet flight planners, and usually print out a log...........just because the log is easy. I like to compare fuel useage to what's calculated.

 

As far as the GPS is concerned, it has many advantages over prior methods. I've owned six moving map GPSs since 1993. A cheaper one is for backup. I use in-flight satellite weather, which beats the old methods in mountain country by a mile. The GPS is also connected to the aircraft's fuel computer (which is great to have), and drives the auto-pilot as well. We also have a lot of restricted airspace around here, many mountain ranges look the same, TFR's will spring up while in flight, weather changes....................and the GPS derived information is just a much better way to do it. For instance, the satellite weather will update the TFRs, as well as showing exact boundaries.

 

Nothing wrong with keeping up on basic VOR navigation. My plane didn't carry NAV/Coms although I have a hand-held that's capable of recieving VORs. With mountains, line of sight VORs don't work, unless you're always high enough to pick them up. Since I was often below peaks, and flew off published airways, the GPS is just the better solution overall.

 

However, for flight simulation, I often find GPS boring. The ground just doesn't capture my interest as well as real flight. I might as well "navigate"....

 

L.Adamson

[Guest]

No, I don't do it because I am sure I will get lost completely. I do however fly with VOR a lot (lately even more then with GPS) and that's already pretty 'old skool' and 'wow' and 'daring' for me. ^_^ It at least gives you something to do during the flight because yes, simply following the magenta line (specially on AP) isn't very exciting. I like checking the radials, setting the frequencies, using triangulation to get somewhere, painting a mental picture of where you are, etc. etc. But dead reckoning... that's one step too far for me, I think. ^_^

[Bina 59]

Very good thread!

 

I've been using dead-reckoning and pilotage since my first FSX experience back in 2008. Coupled with "fly by the book" experience, it becomes an endless fun starting with rigorous flight planning up to landing at your destination. In fact, I learned NDB landings thanks to these experiences!

 

Considering how much time and knowledge goes down the tube to know the bird you fly, I usually keep not more than 4-5 aircraft in my virtual hangar - the ones I know and fly the best! This includes Piper Cub and the Dukes by RealAir, Catalina by Aerosoft, and C182Q by Carenado.

 

For flight planning I use PlanG, SkyVector, and an Excel spreadsheet for pre-flight calculations made by my own (still in alpha but development is progressing well).

 

Since any flight is heavily dependent on weather forecast and analysis, I also heavily use WX tools incl. Aviation Weather for US and World Historic METARs dBase for the rest of the world, just to name the two.

[LHookins 3,118]

However, for flight simulation, I often find GPS boring. The ground just doesn't capture my interest as well as real flight. I might as well "navigate"....

 

In a real aircraft I'd prefer to have a GPS and a backup: belt AND suspenders. And an autopilot and synthetic vision and whatever else you can stick in there to keep my life intact.

 

But in a simulator, I want to experience different things. How was it done in the 40s? Or the 30's or even earlier. I did a lot of ADF flying when I was working on a gauge mod, but never got quite to the whole dead reckoning thing. I knew where I needed to go, and could use the GPS to tell me when I'd get there, even if I wasn't following the magenta line. If I'd known to use times instead, I wouldn't have needed the GPS at all.

 

And speaking of ADF, last time I was at the local airport I found out that the NDB had been permanently shut down. I am saddened. That was my main nav aid for getting home.

 

I suggest you read the propliner tutorial at calclassic.com to get a good insight on how to do it.

 

I've found a few sites with info on using the ADF. I always figured you could do all those things and even did a few of them myself at one time or another. I'll have to check out calclassic; I've heard they have a lot of good stuff.

 

Now and again, I get the VFR charts out and plan a flight somewhere just like I did for PPL cross country flights all those years ago.

 

When I first thought of doing this thread, that was exactly what I was going to say: "just like when you did your cross country way back when."

 

With the weather information we have these days, you shouldn't go far wrong, even with the default scenery.

 

Mostly I'll just check the weather to make sure it's ok to fly and get the prevailing winds and baro pressure. I'm still using the AS2012 weather map, but I may go to more primitive real world methods. Like I said before, I like to adjust for weather on the fly, as I encounter it. With short legs it's hard to go far wrong.

 

I'll use Plan G but every now and then I'll dig out an old sectional and actually lay out the course lines like I used to do when I first learned to fly.

 

It would be nice to get some 2006 era charts.

 

ADF was permitted (no GPS, Moving Maps permitted, essentially no VOR permitted) but because of the great distances involved, I also used Dead Reckoning.

 

What about using an RMI set up to receive the VOR signal, but simply point to the station rather than giving info on radials? No DME obviously. One of the aircraft I fly has such an instrument. Seems that would be more like the old airways, and the VORs have 195 mile ranges rather than the 37.5 or 75 mile ranges on the NDF transmitters.

 

during the flight SCIP

 

The most remote airport in FSX. You get a badge for visiting it.

 

Hook

[LHookins 3,118]

But dead reckoning... that's one step too far for me, I think.

 

Jeroen, it turns out that dead reckoning is dead easy, even if your ONLY nav aid is a magnetic compass that requires using the correction card as the one in the A2A Cub does. Give it a try on a short flight. Use something like Plan-G to set it up, then just follow the compass heading and use a stopwatch or similar to keep track of time. Just make sure your waypoints can be recognized at a distance. As Great Ozzie indicates, it can be exciting and suspenseful as well. Much fun!

 

For flight planning I use PlanG, SkyVector, and an Excel spreadsheet for pre-flight calculations made by my own (still in alpha but development is progressing well).

 

Same here. I wonder how many people use Excel in their flight simming.

 

I've got spreadsheets to manage aircraft loads for the Grumman Goose and a couple of others (I often use asymmetrical loads and have to balance them by uneven fuel loads so I don't have to use rudder trim), fuel planning, and even keeping track of expenses and income from a charter service. That last one includes real world fuel costs courtesy of airnav.com, maintenance allowances with engine time logs and scheduled maintenance costs, copilot salaries, payments on the aircraft and probably a few more that I've forgotten; haven't used it in a while.

 

Flight planning can take almost as long as the fights themselves, and I've modified the checklists and reference cards in the kneeboard to use text files, and I append the flight plan to the reference card for use in the aircraft.

 

Hook

[yankeegolf3 52]

hello,

 

I fly using pilotage/dead reckoning only and in real weather!! I never use a GPS

 

I find it challenging and rewarding. I plan my flights with skyvector and I have the entire US in sectional charts (30 dollars at the flightsim pilot shop). I use an E6B and make the necessary wind correction. I also have the entire US in photoscenery. I really like to try to spot my landmarks to reach my destination and sometimes it is not easy.

[LHookins 3,118]

I have the entire US in sectional charts (30 dollars at the flightsim pilot shop)

 

Cool! What's the difference between the sectional atlas and the topographic atlas? Also, how big are the charts?

 

Hook

[yankeegolf3 52]

Cool! What's the difference between the sectional atlas and the topographic atlas? Also, how big are the charts?

 

Hook

 

The topographic atlas is made of 1/10000000 scale charts while the sectional atlas is made of 1/500000 scale charts. So the sectional charts are better suited for VFR navigation. The atlases are 11 inches by 11 inches and 1 inch thick. Very good quality and value for money.