Hi guys,

 

I'm a long-time Saitek yoke user who's been putting off the expensive step up - but the time has come.

 

I've read everything on avsim and the internets twice, including Word Not Allowed's excellent review of his PFC.

 

The three yokes on my list are:

 

PFC cirrus yoke - saab desktop model

Pfc saab column yoke

ACE 737 column yoke

 

I've been planning on the saab desktop.

 

Some further info: i currently fly the ngx 75% of the time - but plan to do a bit more ga simming too. And the yoke will get heavy T7 use too if course.

 

I use a home cockpit built on a desk. Whilst the mark 2 version will be designed for ngx use, it will be somewhat generic to allow use with a full range of planes including GA.

 

Question: will a column yoke require a seat with a 'cut out' to allow full pitch up? My chair is nothing fancy at the moment, i just use an office or kitchen chair to fly.

 

Will the column yoke hit the desk on full pitch down? I'm guessing this should be ok, based on looking at full home cockpits vs desk setups - but i'm not sure.

 

One comment in a previous thread was that the pfc column yoke was better for sensitive pitch adjustments (and better overall than the desktop pfc). can see that the bungy cord in the desktop pfc might be unrealistic when you pitch and roll - is it?

 

Will it be too weird flying a GA plane with a column yoke? Also, i'm hoping to get back to some rw GA training soon - probably with a yoke rather than a sidestick. Will a column yoke seem too far off the real world cessna yoke? (sadly no likelihood of me flying a real NG any time soon!)

 

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

 

Correct. This is where a column yoke will definitely shine. The problem is the bulkiness. This is why I opted for the desktop version, because I can safely remove it. The column yoke must be somehow fixed on the floor, otherwise it will slip. The problem is noticable with the desktop yoke, it's just a pure design problem, nothing else - can't do it differently, without making the yoke cost double probably -> with the bungee, in the centered position, the bungee has tension x. But when you turn it, let's call that tension y. When you turn and pull, you have x+y. So, the more you pull and turn, the heavier it gets, and when doing some extremes, especially on landing, you might notice it. Can you fly with it? Sure... Way better than any other desktop solution, though I did not try others than Saitek and CH. Column yoke separates those two axes, and is very smooth in all directions.

 

Thanks Word Not Allowed ,

 

Bulk and floor fixing are not concerns - i can work around that.

 

Two questions: in view of the x+y issue, would you buy the desktop saab again or the column?

 

And given the slight limitations of the desktop one, and the different form factor of a yoke - which of the two most closely mimics the feeling of flying a typical yoke-equipped GA plane (like a Cessna)?

 

Also, hall effect sensors - is sensitivity improved over pots? I know they will last longer. Due to import tax etc this option costs me about $400.

The column yoke must be somehow fixed on the floor, otherwise it will slip.

 

Mine never budged, was used on short pile carpet and concrete floor in garage.

If you must go with the Siatek X52 pro (if space is not an issue). Currently I'm on my 3rd MadCatz Cyborg FLY 5 controller. It offers great programmability in a small package. Cheers jja

wow PFC stuff is expensive..i am very envious :lol:

Will it be too weird flying a GA plane with a column yoke?

 

It was a bit weird, but the reverse was true too. I started with the desktop SAAB and it didn't feel right with the airliners. Since I was mostly doing heavies (and the micro stickiness in elevator axis was bothering me) it didn't take long till I traded up for the PFC Jetliner yoke. Hitting the the table was never a problem, and neither was my office chair, though I ended up with a PFC chair which like an idiot I threw away when I thought I was done with civilian sims :Cry: I'm looking at getting one of these from Simkits myself, but they dont answer emails. Im not real comfortable sending them 1200.00 when they cant answer emails. A good thing about PFC is they are very easy to get a hold of.

 

It was a bit weird, but the reverse was true too. I started with the desktop SAAB and it didn't feel right with the airliners. Since I was mostly doing heavies (and the micro stickiness in elevator axis was bothering me) it didn't take long till I traded up for the PFC Jetliner yoke. Hitting the the table was never a problem, and neither was my office chair, though I ended up with a PFC chair which like an idiot I threw away when I thought I was done with civilian sims :Cry: I'm looking at getting one of these from Simkits myself, but they dont answer emails. Im not real comfortable sending them 1200.00 when they cant answer emails. A good thing about PFC is they are very easy to get a hold of.

 

Have you done any real GA flying with a yoke? If so - how does your pfc column yoke experience compare?

 

And are pots really that bad? Everyone was using them until very recently - i heard 'replace every 6 months', but that must be an overstatement? I also read that sensitivity should be the same - both pots and hall effect are infinitely sensitive and it's the da converter that counts. True? Ie. Word Not Allowed, is your yokes great apparent sensitivity more to do with the build quality than the sensors?

Have you done any real GA flying with a yoke? If so - how does your pfc column yoke experience compare?

 

And are pots really that bad? Everyone was using them until very recently - i heard 'replace every 6 months', but that must be an overstatement? I also read that sensitivity should be the same - both pots and hall effect are infinitely sensitive and it's the da converter that counts. True? Ie. Word Not Allowed, is your yokes great apparent sensitivity more to do with the build quality than the sensors?

 

Yes I have time in 152's, 172's, and a Cherokee Six. Neither the desktop nor the column PFC, to me, felt anything like what I've flown A. Because of the springs vs. real world control surface forces B. The real yokes have more fore/aft travel C. The shape of the Saab yoke itself. I actually enjoy my Saitek Yoke more because it feels closer in my hands to what I'm use to real world, just a personal thing. The PFC yokes are obviously much better built. If someone today said 'I'm going to buy you a PFC yoke, pick any model you want' Id get the Cirrus yoke with the Cessna grip, just what feels comfortable in my hand. Personally I never had any pot spiking or problems with either of the PFC's I owned. At the flightsim facility I built though, we eventually replaced all the pots in our Thrustmaster Cougars with Hall Sensors, and last I checked (Im no longer involved there) they were still running problem free. I'd probably spring the extra for the Hall Sensor option since PFC now offers it (they didn't back when I bought mine) It sounds like you do more heavies than GA, so Id probably recommend the column yoke. Another thing I liked with the column yoke was it was easy to just pick the whole thing up and move it out of the way when I wanted my computer for other task (or wanted to set up my TM Cougars for some military simming) If you get the Saab Column, be sure to ask them about the the chart boards for em, they never advertised them, but they made em, and it added that finishing touch to mine. Oh and don't forget the Cirrus pedals

I haven't found any FS hardware solution that comes closer to the real feel of a transport-category jet than the floor-mounted PFC yokes. The column on my yoke does not hit the desk and the column is set only 5.5" back from the edge of the desk. I do not have or need a cutout in the office chair I sit in. I retrofitted mine with Hall Effect sensors last year, and were I buying today I'd absolutely go for the HE upgrade. I've owned my PFC gear for over 10 years now, and the mechanical construction is still as solid as it was on day one. I replaced the position sensors (pots) myself every 2-3 years on average, and now with Hall Sensors in every axis, I'll probably never have to again.

 

With regards to PFC as a company...they've been very easy to work with over the years. Good tech support to go with the "built like a brick ****house" construction.

 

Cheers

And are pots really that bad? Everyone was using them until very recently - i heard 'replace every 6 months', but that must be an overstatement? I also read that sensitivity should be the same - both pots and hall effect are infinitely sensitive and it's the da converter that counts. True? Ie. Word Not Allowed, is your yokes great apparent sensitivity more to do with the build quality than the sensors?

 

Pots have a mechanical wiper that moves over a resistive surface, and as that surface wears and/or becomes contaminated with dust/oxidation etc, it begins to exhibit nonlinearities, or "spikes." A spiking pot is really that bad. My PFC pots lasted typically 18-36 months, and I always kept a box of spares in hand. A Hall Effect transducer measures the field of a nearby magnet as it moves, and there is no contact or wear between the sensor and the magnet. The only wear occurs at the shaft bearing. The Honeywell HE transducers I used in my PFC retrofit are rated at 25 million cycles.

 

I used a couple of Leo Bodnar's BU0836X USB joystick boards in my retrofit...they use 12-bit A-D sampling and have good noise filtering in firmware. The greater sensitivity of the HE setup owes to 12-bit sampling (4096 steps) compared to the 9-bit (512 steps) 7-bit (128 steps) sampling in the original PFC analog (serial) board. Not sure what PFC's current USB devices use. Even with only 7-bit sampling they worked great.

 

Cheers

I checked out the Bodnar site. You'd hope that a $1000 yoke would use a good converter (but they probably don't). Anyone know how the current PFC offerings compare?

 

How hard was the hall effect retrofit on the PFC yoke?

 

And i'm not hearing any upvotes for the 737yoke here. Last i checked it was pots only.

 

I checked out the Bodnar site. You'd hope that a $1000 yoke would use a good converter (but they probably don't). Anyone know how the current PFC offerings compare?

 

How hard was the hall effect retrofit on the PFC yoke?

 

And i'm not hearing any upvotes for the 737yoke here. Last i checked it was pots only.

 

PFC offers the hall option on all their yokes. The 737 column would be the one to get (unless your a big regional fan) Of course if you got the budget there are better options than PFC for 737 yokes.

Hi, sorry i wasn't very clear there, by 737yoke I was referring to the ACE

model (www.737yoke.com). Looks great but I don't think there's a hall effect sensor option.

 

If i buy Pfc i'd go with saab - better value and i'd like the extra buttons.

 

 

Also be aware that even PFC wrote me, that if I would get a stand yoke, I would probably need to get PFC rudder pedals as well, as opposed to Saitek pedals. Has to do with how the pedals are positioned and how you are positioned relative to the pedals.

 

Good pro-tip. I've got the Saitek pedals and can see a PFC pedal upgrade in the near future - but not right now.

 

Tending towards the saab hall-effect desktop despite the fact the hall effect sensors take me over the no-tax import limit (which complicates things and gets expensive).

 

For me - living in the back of beyond - shipping a PFC column yoke is ridiculously expensive and basically doubles the price.

 

My main qualm about getting the SAAB is the comment above about it not feeling as good/'cessna like' in the hands as a basic Saitek yoke. And the 'microstutters' comment is also of interest.

 

Any final comments before I drop the hammer?

No aussie ressellers that i know of with the saab.

 

I've been talking to yien and tracy at pfc over the last few weeks - planning on an import from the US.