Hi guys,

 

This is my first post, and I have looked through the forums and cannot come up with anything, so please be kind to me :Praying: ?

 

Something I've notice recently is that I'll load a flight plan (IFR), an everything STARTS ok.

 

(I use PDMG MD11 and 747-400, and more recently, BBS Airbus prologue series)

 

Everything is fine on the ground, but after take off the 'fun' begins(!):

 

Either:

 

1) ATC is giving directions in an opposite direction of where I should be headed (eg. Take-off from Melbourne for Sydney (north-east) - and directed to fly in the direction of Tasmania (south-bound) or toward Adelaide (west-bound)

 

or

 

 

2) on approach to a particular desination, I'm directly to fly on a heading that takes me near the city - then past it - and directs me to keep on flying ion a particular heading.

 

 

Yes, I always try to reason this is the given SID or STAR and so continue to fly the instructed heading, only to be advised "IFR is camcelled".

 

Has anyone had this issue? Can anyone shed any light on this?

 

 

I would be very, very grateful!

 

Cheers

 

J!

IFR is usually only cancelled if you don't confirm an ATC transmission, and after ATC has asked you a few times if you copy. So maybe you fly the heading they told you, but forget to tell ATC you copied?

Regarding the first point it would be interesting what route you have "filed" (i.e. the FSX flight plan, on which ATC is based), and the route you've actually flown until your flight plan was cancelled. It is possible, that the route leads you away from where you thnk you should be going, because your flight plan, which might be based on airways, not a direct airport to airport route, and those airways lead e.g. southwards and then continue up North, instead of taking you straight to the North. But since I'm not familiar with the Australian airspace too much (I'm more a US/Europe flyer), and I'm not at my simming rig in the next few days, that's only a guess.

On the second problem: FSX ATC is known for its zig-zag approaches, which is due to some programming limitations. From my experience, those approaches a kind of identical to published STARs, except that you are vectored, and everytime your route offset exceeds a certain value, you get a new heading, which then results in those strange zig-zags. There are only two ways to avoid this: Either don't fly with ATC (which is my preferred solution, I just base my choice of RWYs and STARs on current weather data), or when you are given your first approach instructions, select the option "Select different approach", then your preferred runway (which should be identical or parallel to the one ATC initially assigned to you), and then chose a transiton waypoint that seems to be apt for your selected RWY (look at approach plates, if you're not sure about this). ATC will then clear you directly to the transition waypoint, and then on to the runway, without any further instructions, except maybe altitude and freq changes.

I hope this is of help.

 

Regards,

Flo

 

P.S. I assume, you're familiar with reading/interpreting approach plates and the concept of SIDs and STARs, as you mention them in your original post.

IFR is usually only cancelled if you don't confirm an ATC transmission, and after ATC has asked you a few times if you copy. So maybe you fly the heading they told you, but forget to tell ATC you copied?

Regarding the first point it would be interesting what route you have "filed" (i.e. the FSX flight plan, on which ATC is based), and the route you've actually flown until your flight plan was cancelled. It is possible, that the route leads you away from where you thnk you should be going, because your flight plan, which might be based on airways, not a direct airport to airport route, and those airways lead e.g. southwards and then continue up North, instead of taking you straight to the North. But since I'm not familiar with the Australian airspace too much (I'm more a US/Europe flyer), and I'm not at my simming rig in the next few days, that's only a guess.

On the second problem: FSX ATC is known for its zig-zag approaches, which is due to some programming limitations. From my experience, those approaches a kind of identical to published STARs, except that you are vectored, and everytime your route offset exceeds a certain value, you get a new heading, which then results in those strange zig-zags. There are only two ways to avoid this: Either don't fly with ATC (which is my preferred solution, I just base my choice of RWYs and STARs on current weather data), or when you are given your first approach instructions, select the option "Select different approach", then your preferred runway (which should be identical or parallel to the one ATC initially assigned to you), and then chose a transiton waypoint that seems to be apt for your selected RWY (look at approach plates, if you're not sure about this). ATC will then clear you directly to the transition waypoint, and then on to the runway, without any further instructions, except maybe altitude and freq changes.

I hope this is of help.

 

Regards,

Flo

 

P.S. I assume, you're familiar with reading/interpreting approach plates and the concept of SIDs and STARs, as you mention them in your original post.

 

 

Hi there Flo,

 

Whenever I file a flight plan with ATC it is always the FSX Plan (and always IFR), and yes, I am familiar with reading and interperting SID's and STARS.

 

Out of curiousity I did a 'quick' Zurich(LSZH)-Frankfurt Main (EDDF) yesterday on a BBS Swiss Airbus 320 - same thing again: I get the announcement I am "X Miles from EDDF, expect vectors for runway XX, descend FLXXX and turn heading XXX" which, again, is in the opposite direction to EDDF. But I continue and after no further instructions for nearly 50 nm, I then get the instructions to turn to heading XXX, and think, "ok, we're getting somewhere", but almost immediately, "IFR is cancelled". I have checked and double checked, and of course, I am acknowledging all instructions.

 

 

Any further thoughts?

It sounds like it is directing you back to a missed way point. I have seen that happen, not just on the default fsx atc, but also payware, where your flightplan in your aircraft does not match your filed flight plan. If you have a sid and star loaed in the PMDG 747 for example, the fsx atc flight plan maybe missing those departure and arrival waypoints.

Sounds like you have waypoints in your plan that don't appear in the sim which will confuse FSX ATC. Also your plans SIDs, STARs and approaches are ignored by ATC if they don't comply with current conditions.

Seems like I remember a thread on the same subject recently.

 

So maybe you fly the heading they told you, but forget to tell ATC you copied?

 

They'll request confirmation at least twice before canceling IFR for non-response. It would be hard to miss these unless you'd tuned a different frequency. If the sound of the ATC had cut out (happened to me at least once) you wouldn't hear the cancellation transmission. Note that I have the ATC text turned off, and only use the voice transmissions.

 

Requesting a different approach sounds like a good workaround.

 

Also your plans SIDs, STARs and approaches are ignored by ATC if they don't comply with current conditions.

 

Does this mean that people really can't program in the approach before they ever take off? How are such things done in the real world? I'm so confused!!

 

I've had enough bizarre problems with IFR flight plans that the only time I'll file one is if it's required to take off or land. This means I sometimes create and file one as soon as landing permission is denied.

 

Hook

True, in the sim world there should be nothing to stop you doing what you want, landing which direction you want. If I want to do my own approaches, I ignore ATC, but that's not done in the real world (I expect).

I've not had much trouble with ATC, aside from occasionally telling me to hold short or line up and wait, then forgetting that I exist. I'm flying more IFR these days, but my flying is low altitude direct GPS. I do know that if you miss an ATC direction/altitude change request that they will terminate your IFR flight and place you on VFR. If that happens you can go into the flight planner window, reenter the flight, then when it asks if you want to move your airplane to the selected start point, just click "no" and your IFR flight will resume with you still in the air.

 

As for ATC directing you in opposite or odd directions, this is just Flight Sim's ATC behavior. There might be reasons, either sending you to a selected way point or a way point that is part of an airway or they are directing you to avoid certain areas or set up approaches. IFR can sometimes be very frustrating, especially near the end of a flight when ATC sends you many miles downwind from the runway, but this is sometimes quite realistic. I remember being on a real flight to Fort Lauderdale International, the aircraft passed over the coast, heading west, and ventured far inland before turning onto final. I usually see FSX's ATC doing the same to me.