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daveob

Lancair Legacy Hard to Fly Part 2

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Hey Everyone,

I'm looking for help with the Legacy. I read this in a previous post:

 

"I suggest that when approaching the pattern, you set about 19-20 inches of MP and maintain about 2400 RPM. This should get you to about 110 KIAS. Then, you throttle down to 17 inches when you lower the flaps the first notch and this drops you down to where you can drop the landing gear. Keep 17 MP and go to full RPM, trim for a 500 foot per minute descent rate and when on a 45 degree angle to the runway on downwind (past the runway) turn to base leg and drop flaps to its second detent.

 

On final approach, when landing appears ensured (meaning good glidepath and no traffic on the runway), drop flaps to full and keep 17 MP until crossing runway threshold. Your speed will likely bleed down on short final to about 85 KIAS and then pull power slowly to idle as your cross the runway threshold, or if the runway has no threshold, then pull the power smoothly so that when you cross the start of the runway you are at ground idle."

 

These numbers don't correlate with anything I am seeing. First, I've set up FSX exactly as described in the Flying Guide, so hopefully that should not be an issue. But with the autopilot engaged to ensure level flight, I pull the power back to 17", it does not want to slow down. It's not until I'm back to less than 12" do I start to see any erosion in speed. Even at that low of a power setting, I can only decend @ 500 fpm otherwise its accelerating again. I love flying this plane, but I am starting to wonder about the flight dynamics. It seems unrealistic to have to pull power back so close to idle to see any speed response.

 

Is it possible that my cfg file for either FSX or the Legacy is wrong or corrupted and needs adjustment? I would like to get some advice. I really like flying this plane, and I realize that, especially with descents, advanced planning is needed. But again, the lack of what should reasonable responses to throttle imputs is rather discouraging.

 

Thanks for the help,

Dave

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Those numbers are way off. I've found 14" with speed brakes will get you slowed into the pattern. And that's in level flight. You won't get 110 kts until you drop the gear and flaps. You've got to remember how aerodynamically slippery this plane is. Make sure prop is full forward or at least in the green for descent to create drag


|Ryan Butterworth|

| i7 4790K@4.4GHz | 32GB RAM | EVGA GTX 1080Ti | ASUS Z97-Pro | 1TB 860 Evo | 500GB 840 Evo Win10 Pro | 1TB Samsung 7200rpm | Seasonic X750W |

 

 

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Thanks Ryan for the reply. I'm trying to manage airspeed without the speed brakes if possible. I know one RW Lancair pilot who once told me he views the speed brakes as almost cheating and that a better prepared pilot can get by with power changes. If this model requires the speed brakes for speed management I will use them, but I keep hearing that pilot's voice everytime I do that. I'm a RW pilot with many hours in a Mooney 201. It wasn't anywhere near this hard to get things slowed and configured. But like you said Ryan, the Lancair is very slippery. Appreciate your thoughts.

Dave

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I don't agree they are cheating but I do agree you can manage descent without them. You just have to do a good job. I'm not a mooney or a legacy pilot but the aerodynamic difference between the two is night and day. The legacy is the fastest piston single out there.


|Ryan Butterworth|

| i7 4790K@4.4GHz | 32GB RAM | EVGA GTX 1080Ti | ASUS Z97-Pro | 1TB 860 Evo | 500GB 840 Evo Win10 Pro | 1TB Samsung 7200rpm | Seasonic X750W |

 

 

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No you are certainly correct in that observation. I'm just wondering if such wide throttle reductions are realistic. So I was hoping others who have mastered the Legacy could give some feedback. Thanks again,

Dave

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Those numbers, from your first post are exactly what I have for the Lancair in my notes and I don't use the speed brakes. I probably got them from the manual or Rob. I fly it like the JS41...get speed down early and while *level*. It sinks pretty well once you're on final approach speed.


Gregg Seipp

"A good landing is when you can walk away from the airplane.  A great landing is when you can reuse it."
i7-8700 32GB Ram, GTX-1070 8 Gig RAM

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For me I follow the engines and keep a low temp as possible ......... but this plane is mor e feel then # keep temps low fly by sight land at 120 knkts or more this plane need a longer run way

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No you are certainly correct in that observation. I'm just wondering if such wide throttle reductions are realistic. So I was hoping others who have mastered the Legacy could give some feedback. Thanks again,

Dave

Good advice above...Get her slowed down early and one little trick I picked up from one of the movies with the real plane...as you are trying to get the speed down to lower gear and flaps pull the nose up into a shallow climb and it will fall right off. Easy to get her back down once the gear and flaps come down.

Sam

Prepar3D V5.0/8086K@5.0/EVGA 1080TI SC Black/850W PSU/Windows 10/40" 4K Samsung Monitor@3840x2160/ASP4/ASCA/ORBX/ChasePlane/General Aviation/Vertx DA-62/

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I wonder if you mean once level you power back to those settings to slow? (@ Greigg) Here's my typical flight (with some input from the real world owner of N508DB Don Barnes).

 

Full throttle and props high rpm on takeoff (power back a little if too high MP)...

 

Climbout set 25" and 2500 rpms mixture set for whatever you want (I set best power cause I'm not paying for gas hehe)

 

En route power back to 22" and 2400rpms (2300 is another good setting for noise/FF) - this usually yields a 75% -ish power setting which tends to yield 235-240 ktas

 

Descent I slowly pull power back to 15", set props 2600rpms, and settle into a 500-800 fpm descent. Sometimes I'll power to 12" MP but I'm not sure about the negative affects of that power setting (shock cooling maybe I thought that was for turbocharged only... not sure - I'm not a high performance pilot).

 

Approach speeds I know I blow way past book numbers I usually fly ILS's at 160 kts and put out the speed brakes on the G/S, @ 140kias drop gear, 130 drop flaps first notch, and then put all the flaps in as soon as speed warrants it. Full flaps and heavy I'll use 14-15" MP at about 90 kias for a 3.00 degree glide path (450 fpm descent). Idle over the threshhold but careful this thing will sink pretty drastically once power is out in a dirty config. Sometimes I have a little power in on touchdown... I usually get a rapid sinking or near stall around 80 kias.


|Ryan Butterworth|

| i7 4790K@4.4GHz | 32GB RAM | EVGA GTX 1080Ti | ASUS Z97-Pro | 1TB 860 Evo | 500GB 840 Evo Win10 Pro | 1TB Samsung 7200rpm | Seasonic X750W |

 

 

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keep a low temp as possible

 

That's an interesting statement. Why do you say that?


Gregg Seipp

"A good landing is when you can walk away from the airplane.  A great landing is when you can reuse it."
i7-8700 32GB Ram, GTX-1070 8 Gig RAM

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That's an interesting statement. Why do you say that?

 

Because in real life people have to pay for overhauls lol... detonation from high CHT etc creating cracks in pistons/casings etc. Also if high CHT you're probably burning a ton of gas... more money, fewer time between overhauls etc..


|Ryan Butterworth|

| i7 4790K@4.4GHz | 32GB RAM | EVGA GTX 1080Ti | ASUS Z97-Pro | 1TB 860 Evo | 500GB 840 Evo Win10 Pro | 1TB Samsung 7200rpm | Seasonic X750W |

 

 

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Because in real life people have to pay for overhauls lol... detonation from high CHT etc creating cracks in pistons/casings etc. Also if high CHT you're probably burning a ton of gas... more money, fewer time between overhauls etc..

 

Well, that makes sense but it makes sense for any aircraft, I guess. But it's not something I hear people say about other aircraft. They rarely mention it at all. I've always been curious about this airplane's safety record and the thought I had was maybe this is one more piece of the puzzle.

 

I wonder if you mean once level you power back to those settings to slow? (@ Greigg) Here's my typical flight (with some input from the real world owner of N508DB Don Barnes).

 

Full throttle and props high rpm on takeoff (power back a little if too high MP)...

 

Climbout set 25" and 2500 rpms mixture set for whatever you want (I set best power cause I'm not paying for gas hehe)

 

En route power back to 22" and 2400rpms (2300 is another good setting for noise/FF) - this usually yields a 75% -ish power setting which tends to yield 235-240 ktas

 

Descent I slowly pull power back to 15", set props 2600rpms, and settle into a 500-800 fpm descent. Sometimes I'll power to 12" MP but I'm not sure about the negative affects of that power setting (shock cooling maybe I thought that was for turbocharged only... not sure - I'm not a high performance pilot).

 

Approach speeds I know I blow way past book numbers I usually fly ILS's at 160 kts and put out the speed brakes on the G/S, @ 140kias drop gear, 130 drop flaps first notch, and then put all the flaps in as soon as speed warrants it. Full flaps and heavy I'll use 14-15" MP at about 90 kias for a 3.00 degree glide path (450 fpm descent). Idle over the threshhold but careful this thing will sink pretty drastically once power is out in a dirty config. Sometimes I have a little power in on touchdown... I usually get a rapid sinking or near stall around 80 kias.

 

I'll have to try this. RW pilots say to keep some speed in on final, don't they?


Gregg Seipp

"A good landing is when you can walk away from the airplane.  A great landing is when you can reuse it."
i7-8700 32GB Ram, GTX-1070 8 Gig RAM

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Well, that makes sense but it makes sense for any aircraft, I guess. But it's not something I hear people say about other aircraft. They rarely mention it at all. I've always been curious about this airplane's safety record and the thought I had was maybe this is one more piece of the puzzle.

 

I'll have to try this. RW pilots say to keep some speed in on final, don't they?

 

You might not hear it because seasoned RW pilots do it automatically. And most FS pilots don't think about those details (especially GA flyers). They'll matter REAL QUICK in turbine aircraft I'm sure you've noticed with your J41 :)

 

Depends on the plane for having power in on short final. I believe with twins you usually will but most single pistons you won't. In the Warrior I know I didn't have power in on short final. In the Warrior we basically put the plane in a pre-stall config right before the wheels touched down... so you might get the warning horn while touching down. Which would mean the slowest possible landing speed.

 

Of course the Legacy is a little different than the Warrior :lol:


|Ryan Butterworth|

| i7 4790K@4.4GHz | 32GB RAM | EVGA GTX 1080Ti | ASUS Z97-Pro | 1TB 860 Evo | 500GB 840 Evo Win10 Pro | 1TB Samsung 7200rpm | Seasonic X750W |

 

 

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I think the talk about 'amost cheating' is nonsense. They put that speed brake on the plane for you to USE it, so why would that be cheating? What is cheating anyway when it comes to flying? Cheating doesn't exist imho when it comes to flying. Using slew to move you down a couple of 1000 feet during a landing is cheating but everything that can be done in real life isn't cheating. ^_^

 

Having said that, I do get more satisfaction from a neat approach where I managed everything without speedbrake, haha! ^_^ But I really don't mind using them.

 

And btw those numbers in the OP are quite high imho too! I usually bring back throttle to something like 12" in order to descend nicely and have a speed of around 130 before I begin the final approach. That's the hardest part. As soon as flaps are going down, the plane is very easy to slow down. So easy that you have to watch out not to fall out of the sky.

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I think the talk about 'amost cheating' is nonsense. They put that speed brake on the plane for you to USE it, so why would that be cheating? What is cheating anyway when it comes to flying? Cheating doesn't exist imho when it comes to flying. Using slew to move you down a couple of 1000 feet during a landing is cheating but everything that can be done in real life isn't cheating.

I've heard coaches say "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying!" :wink: I've thought about the shockcooling effect of pulling the throttle back as well. Pulling the throttle back to 12" or lower as I have been doing, would be a big no-no in the RW. You'd eventually see some cylinders start cracking eventually if that was the normal way that the engine was being operated.

 

I'll have to try this. RW pilots say to keep some speed in on final, don't they?

 

That depends on the aircraft. 152's, 172's, even the 201 I used to fly, you did not necessarily keep power into the flare. But I also about 70 hours in a T210. And you definitely kept power all the way to flaring. It would drop like a rock if power was brought back too early.

 

Well, thanks for all the input and various profiles I saw. If anyone is trying anything different please post it. My main goal from all of this is to be able to fly the Legacy as realistically as I can.

 

Dave

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