thanks for the feedback and positive words PetePeter Wilding

The more advanced user may choose to leave some textures out. This is not recommended as the appearance will be compromised.Optional; For more advanced users it may be a good idea to put things back to default FS9 water files before you install FS Water. The default files can be found on the main installation disks of FS9 (Flight Simulator 9).It may vary from country to country but at least here in the UK, FS9 default, textures can be found as follows;the sky textures can be found on disk 2 MSgames3. These files should be unpacked into the main FS9texture folder. These files are in the form sky_*.bmp and there are 132 files.the water environment textures can be found on disk 4 in sceneryworld. These files should be unpacked into the FS9sceneryworldtexture folder. These files are in the form env_*.bmp and in total there are 11 files.the base bit map water textures can be found on disk 4 in sceneryworld. These files should be unpacked into the FS9sceneryworldtexture folder. These files are in the form ???b2wa1.bmp and in total there are 59 files.the OceanHeightField.bmp can be found on disk 2 MSgames3. These files should be unpacked into the main FS9texture folder.If you do these 4 options above you should have your FS9 running like new in the water and sky departments.Regards, Peter Wilding

Thanks for that Naji,I have to say I'm very encouraged by all the positive feedback here and I'm already working on freebie extras to include; like alternative wave effect files and perhaps some alternative overcast textures to address the comments of some of you, particaurly Greg who has made a tremendous input for us with a very in-depth review.Peter

I've been trying those files you sent me, Peter. They are great. I think they will add alot to your already terrific package.I'll contact you in a day or so after I've compiled all my notes.Thanks,Greg

Where is the manual located in FSWater?Thanks,Mark

>Where is the manual located in FSWater?>>Thanks,>Mark>under FS9 path there is a folder called Flight One SoftwareFS WaterB.R.;-)

One thing I would say Greg is that what looks good at one altitude does not look as good at other altiudes. I still thing the main FS Water bump map is the best overall. That said, it's more than likely, at lower altiudes which some simmers will no doubt prefer, that there is some improvement.The danger is that a soft or milder or more detailed bump map may not have enought movement to make the higher altitudes look as good? However, if FSUIPC is used to set visibility to a maximum of around 120 miles then these softer bump maps can look better at higher altitudes. I would think it's okay to experiment and to let the user know the safeset idea is to use the default FS Water set-up once in a while during testing to see what if anything has been lost/gained?Peter

Hi there,you will find it via the start key on the desktop in the flight one software group and in FS water.Peter

Yes you can,the way the FS9 engine seems to work is that the inland water goes more brown in the winter and more green in the summer when using FS Water. Not sure if this is right but it's certainly more right than the way things work by default with FS.Peter

Thanks!BTW, you've done an excellent job here in my opinion. Keep up he good work!Mark

I bought FS Water yesterday and for what it's worth here's my feedback:I think the water textures and effects are as good as the best freeware textures out there but not noticeably better to me.It's much easier to install than the freeware water effects and textures.The sky texture is a good improvement over the default.I think the product needs far more content and choices. For instance I live in the UK and do a lot of my sim flying there. Inland water is a generally a muddy colour, and the sea tends to be greyer and greener than those on the FS Water product. I noticed elsewhere on this forum that different colours were considered for the inland water - well why weren't they included so that the user could choose which to install? Why not provide choices on the installer for different parts of the world, so people can install a colour set of their choice? The ease of use of the installer would make this simple - you just run it again before flying somewhere different. This could also be extended to give users a choice of wave height...?I'd like to see a twinkling effect as an option also(I think Bill Lyons once provided one).I think if these things were added FS Water could be the last word on water textures and effects, but until then it's only as good as the freeware and with less choice...I hope this feedback helps someone.... And especially I'd like to see Flight 1 enhance the product as I've suggested :))Jon

This is a shot I made some time ago above Indian Valley Resevoir, about 80 miles north of San Francisco. We were at an altitude of 6000', time of day was a little past 2:00P.M., and the shot was made on Kodak E100VS and then drum scanned to a high res GIF. There was a small forest fire burning 15 miles north of our position. The location is very remote (they have a hard time getting the fish to stay in this resevoir... they get lonely being so far out in the wilderness).http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/87997.jpgWhat struck me about this shot is how blue the water looks. The water in the resevoir never looks this good... it is a shallow body of recent creation. The terrain around it is relatively steep causing any precip run off to keep the water a muddy brown much of the time. Yet to my eyes at the instant I made the shot the water looked very nice. Surely the smoke and dust from the fire had a lot to do with this... just look at the darkened hue of the terrain.My point is to try bringing to fore the fact that what we see in water is more than just what is in the water. Light temperature is as important a factor as anything that may be in the water itself. Sun angle too is a critical factor. Yet another is atmospheric effects. And then there is the most critical variable... what each person's eyes perceive.I think MS did a pretty good job with the water in FS9... but of course doing it perfectly is an awesome challenge. Peter's work in FS Water definately ratchets up the quality.The suggestions you make, Jon, are all good. Safe to say we would all agree with your points. And I know that Peter too would agree. He knows the importance of light in making the water look accurate (I believe this is one of the reasons he included new sky textures in FS Water... making such a package is much more than just tweaking the water bitmaps).This is not a simple matter, as evidenced by the numerous water packages we've seen since the release of FS9. Numerous folks have given us their interpretation of "accurate". For me the end result cannot be something from one package that pleases all simmers. I believe water in FS9 will continue to develope, and I'm glad someone like Peter is working on this. He clearly knows his stuff. Hopefully we'll see more in the future.Cheers,Greg

Hi there,It's not actually as simple as you make out as the FS9 engine does not make use of as many tiles as I would like.It is also a matter of perception and I don't agree with you about the inland water in England. I live in England also and if anything I think the inland water is too green with FS Water, especially in the summer months. The FS9 engine does change the way things look in summer and winter.In an ideal world we would probably need the FS9 engine to make use of maybe over a hundered environment textures, not just 11, and maybe 600 water base bit maps, not just 59.That said I trust you appreciate that FS Water is only $15 and that is never going to pay anything like decent wage for the time I have put in. On the other hand if FS9 did make use of ten times the number of tiles to edit and thousands of additional combinations to compare would you be prepared to pay $150-$1500. Not of course not. And I would not expect you to either. But then I doubt I'd try and make the water better in those circumstances. I suspect the simulator would more like $400 or more for that kind of attention to the environment. Please let's not forget this is a game engine we are working with.All that said if you feel that is bad value for money then please do not hesitate to ask for a refund.On a more positive note;As far as choice is concerned I am working on improved waves and I've made some very good progress. Expect a patch with various wave height files as an option.We are working on improvements in other areas but I do suspect some of you will expect more than is going to be possible considering the limits of the eingine.I do suspect that some of you will take some pleasure in having the option to change this file or that file and that others will enjoy not having to do this as we as developers have all we can to make it look as good as we can.It is important though that you, the customer, push us developers, and we welcome your ideas and feedback.But all this said Jon you don't have to like FS Water or see value in it.Rest assuured that it is going to get better, like all products, but meanwhile, plaase first spend some serious time in clear skies and try out the saved situations to see its potential.Peter

A lot of people can't see blues or green strongly. It may be that you are one of those people?To me the colour is very significantly different. To me the difference it makes in the sim is subtle but very much more convincing.Peter

Peter,I didn't intend to cause offence and I'm sorry if I did. To put my remarks in context, I bought FS Water and I'm not intending to ask for a refund. Also I'm aware that many of the freeware textures I referred to were in fact produced by you :)I know that MSFS is only capable of supporting a limited number of water textures, but I also know it's possible to have a whole library of alternatives available to copy in prior to running the sim.Thats why I'm suggesting that FS Water could add more choice through it's installer by giving, for example a choice between blue inland water and muddy inland water. Because the installer is so easy to run it could be used before running Flight Sim whenever the user wished to swap in a different texture. Similar for wave height and I'm really pleased you have something in the works for that!I do think it is good value for money, and all I'm really trying to say is that you have a product capable of knocking the freeware competition on the head if only you can give as many choices (or more) to the users than the freeware does.Keep up to good work and don't be put off by us whinging moaners..RegardsJon