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Guest metamarty

The Scam of the Century

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There is no reason for your framerates to suffer because of a background AV program. You can disable it. If having it disabled but resident offends you get Custom Startup ($10) http://gboban.hypermart.net/ and define a profile that boots without ANY extraneous programs.

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Marc,I agree with you 100%. I dumped mine about four years ago. It seems more people have problems with anti-virus programs then any others. I personally use mail washer which lets me preview my email before even downloading it off my mail server. If it is suspicious, it gets blacklisted and deleted from my mail server.Ed

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I have started using Mail Washer recently, if for no other reason than to bounce all of those ridiculous spam e-mails back to where they came. I now have a huge blacklist of e-mail addresses, since the only e-mails that I am interested in are those from my friends or companies that I have done business with. Anything else is SPAM, pure and simple. Some advertisers might like to send me details about their products, but if I wanted a particular product, then I would contact THEM.So they can all **** *** as far as I'm concerned :-)Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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I may be controversial, but as a computer nerd, I love virusses. I don't care for big companies or small computer users who don't have the intelligence to use a computer to get infected. Bad software like windows have created the opportunity to allow this sort of stuff. If the focus had been on quality software and open source reviews, instead of greed and marketing, noone would have these kind of problems. Instead, we all have come to know this as a "computer problem" instead of a "bad software problem", which it clearly is. Therefore we all spend thousand of dollars on "anti virus" software. You know what, I have a good day when I read about a new attack. I use a simple linux firewall and the mutt mail reader and never ever have I had problem with my computers. I don't use windows based firewalls and I don't have virus scanners. People need to realize that computers are dangerous if handled improperly. They require the utmost care and competence when it comes to writing software. If you focus on earning as much as you can and forcing your software on people with marketing, then this is what you get.

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".....as a computer nerd, I love virusses. I don't care for big companies or small computer users who don't have the intelligence to use a computer to get infected. Bad software like windows have created the opportunity to allow this sort of stuff. If the focus had been on quality software and open source reviews, instead of greed and marketing, noone would have these kind of problems. Instead, we all have come to know this as a "computer problem" instead of a "bad software problem", which it clearly is. Therefore we all spend thousand of dollars on "anti virus" software. You know what, I have a good day when I read about a new attack......"Get A Life Please.Enough Said.

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It's alright for people with an ounce of savvy to say that virus protection software is useless, but it's not really aimed at them, IMHO. If you're sensible enough to delete suspect e-mail and stop it before it reaches your PC, then you're totally 100% right.However, I would suggest that Anti-virus is an essential piece of software for the casual user, who doesn't tinker much with their PC. I drive a car and a motorbike but I wouldn't say I know much about the ins and out of them... I just drive them. I put oil in the engine and other minor maintenance, but for the most part, I can't be sure what difference I'm making... just that I know that if I don't do these things, I'm gonna break down one day. Last time I visited my doctor, He gave me a tetanus jab... now what are the chances of me getting tetanus? Just so totally slim! But I'm glad I had it, just in case... I NEVER want to get lockjaw! Much the same for the casual PC user who updates their virus software from time to time. It stops KNOWN viruses from spreading indefinitely.So I commend you on your knowhow and your foresight... and thumbs up to never getting a virus... but I don't agree with the whole scam conspiracy thing. Antivirus software and operating systems are updated often. It stops these viruses from continuing to spread, once they have been identified. Without AV, we might all be riddled with dodgy little bugs that 'boys in basements' would be sending here there and everywhere.Viruses can often be quite passive... they're just made by silly people who want to try their hand. So don't be sure that just because your system seems unaffected, you don't have something on your HD that you're potentially going to infect someone else with. Also... if you don't have AV software installed, how do you know you haven't been affected?MailWasher sound really cool.. thanks for the tip on that one... I'll check it out. :)Cheers all,Simon.

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Just one question.You claim that you've never had a virus over the past 3 years-how do you know?I mean some virus's are pretty silent in the way they go about their business on a computer-without AV software you probably wouldnt know that you had it.

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AV and Firewall protection are 100% needed when the machine is connected to the Internet, even when its behind another one.I have AV on ALL machines except for one, my FS machine. My setup is a little unique though.My email is checked by 3 different AV systems, and all inbound and outbound traffic goes through an invisible checker on my firewall. The ONLY reason my sim machine doesnt have AV is that discipline will not allow me (neither will my firewall) to download anything onto it.If I want a file for it I have to download on a protected machine and then load it into Flightsim.You can never be too careful at all. For instance all of our systems at work are hidden completely behind PIX firewalls that do not let the ports 135,139, 69, 4444 that the Blastr virus uses through.... therefore we are immune on the workstations to it. Though it cannot get in, my department has still deployed the Microsoft patch out to every machine "just in case" even though it would be impossible for one of them to even see the Internet without the PIX.On an individual system you should/must have it, however I have found that with Nortons, disabling "Realtime protection" while you play will help, otherwise as the Sim loads/unloads files you will see a hit... but it takes a quick right click on the icon to do that before you load FS.Jonathan O'Connor

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"What form of software causes more install glitches and impacts Flight Sim performance more than any other commercial product on the market? If you answered Anti-virus software... DING, DING, DING, DING..."Other than one piece of anecdotal evidence, do you have anything to back up this sweeping generalization? Secondly, do you know of a site that reports PC software sales, or were you guessing that AV stuff is at the top of the sales list? Tim13

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Software that comes in the form of an email attachement and requires a user to execute it before it can act malicously does not deserve to be called a virus. The whole virus industry, including the un-informed media that trumps up the stories, IS A SCAM.

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Revelling in the spread of viruses because software companies can't spend unlimited resources creating bulletproof operating systems is truely idiotic. That is the equivalent of supporting people spreading broken bottles and tire shreaders on freeways because the automotive industry can't make totally indestructable tires at a cost that consumers can afford.If every software innovation had to be delayed for several years to plug every conceivable, or inconceiveable, avenue of attack, then we would still be running cumbersome command line software from the 70's and we would have to pay $250,000 for an OS that had Pentagon level security. The Internet would still be a university/military exclusive tool.Also, don't get all high an mightly about Linux. The only reason it isn't being constantly attacked is that hackers can't be bothered, it is too limited in usage and they prefer to go after the corporations who supposedly make our live so miserable by providing us with cutting edge computers, OSes, and games at affordable prices.

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I've not been hit with a virus since 1987 (which took me 3 mins to realize, 2 mins to kill, and FOUR hours to ensure I'd eradicated it *grin*). Part luck, part being smarter (i.e. not opening mail from blargy@blnbzarr.com entitled "RE: I didn't believe it would make me rich either"). I still have and use AV software... but only run it when I have a questionable situation or on most anything I download.

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>Revelling in the spread of viruses because software companies>can't spend unlimited resources creating bulletproof operating>systems is truely idiotic. That is the equivalent of>supporting people spreading broken bottles and tire shreaders>on freeways because the automotive industry can't make totally>indestructable tires at a cost that consumers can afford.You don't need unlimited resources to make a secure application. You don't even need bulletproof software. Software may contain bugs without compromising security. All it takes is the right person at the right job and correct development procedures to create software. Using an open source development system greatly reduces the risk of having critical bugs at critical locations. Ignoring security issues and keeping your protocols proprietary means putting your customers at risk. That's what Microsoft does.>>If every software innovation had to be delayed for several>years to plug every conceivable, or inconceiveable, avenue of>attack, then we would still be running cumbersome command line>software from the 70's and we would have to pay $250,000 for>an OS that had Pentagon level security. The Internet would>still be a university/military exclusive tool.Funny, but exact these demands are made for the development of medicines and the acquiring of airworthiness certificates for aircraft. If you don't think sofware security is that important, wait what happens when entire financial databases are destroyed. Software can cost lives.The internet still exists and recovers from attacks because it runs mainly on open source, community created software and standards. These standards and protocols have been look at by thousands of enthousiasts and are examined daily by people who are interested in their functioning. If there are bugs, they will be found and fixed. The only thing you're paying $250000 dollars for are closed propriatery systems.>>Also, don't get all high an mightly about Linux. The only>reason it isn't being constantly attacked is that hackers>can't be bothered, it is too limited in usage and they prefer>to go after the corporations who supposedly make our live so>miserable by providing us with cutting edge computers, OSes,>and games at affordable prices.This is exactly what I mean by saying that people have been tricked into believing that virusses and crashes are a "computer problem" instead of a "bad software problem". Yes, linux has had vulnarabilities, but when found they are fixed immediatly. Microsoft has been caught time and time again ignoring warnings about problems in their software, only to allow yet another virus to spread months later. Computers can be secure and rock solid. For example, the most secure operating system, OpenBSD, can be downloaded for free and still holds the world record of security; one remote hole has ever been found.

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You're not a computer nerd, you're an ignorant FOOL if that's the way you think.Your attitude is the same as that of the criminals who spread virusses "to punish large corporations" and other such crap.

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OpenBSD and Linux are so full of holes it doesn't even bear contemplating them as secure...Sure, they can be MADE relatively secure, but default installations (which are all that the average user can manage, at best) are a playing field for intruders.Out of the box Windows (any Windows) is more secure than BSD or Linux out of the box, and it's far easier to update as well.

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Virusses may serve a purpose that's more important than anybody may understand. Ignorance is believing everything will be fine in your Microsoft world.

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Same here...Except it was a few years later. The infection affected only a few floppies I'd used at the university (where they did NOT have up to date AV software).I run a background scanner continuously without affecting my machine at all (loadtimes of apps might be a bit slower, nothing else).

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I'm speechless. This is beyond my comprehension. Please visit www.openbsd.org.

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To elaborate,As much as people hate virusses, their writers, or even me for saying this, virusses have an important role in the world. They keep the pressure on people for updating their systems and they force IT personel to learn more about what's on their computers. As long as buggy software is being written, it is important to get it fixed, and that's what virusses are for. Imagine for a moment a child being brought up in an isolated enviroment without getting in contact with any virus. After 20 years, he is released into the world. He will probably be dead in less than a year. Now imagine the world being filled with windows computers, not having received a single security update for over 2 years because there was no need for it. Imagine what would happen when a single person strikes. It won't be far off the truth if I would speculate that he could make the entire high tech industry in the world come crashing down. That's why it's important that people keep getting focused on these issues.A virus is speeding ticket on the internet highway. Just play by the rules, and you'll be safe.

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I am sure you are just joking. There is no way you really believe such a statement as the one you placed in this thread.

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I see where you're coming from, but I have to disagree.I mean... if people applied that way of thinking elsewhere, the world would be a very bad place in which to live. Conditioning children to hold lit fireworks, so their melted, stubby hands won't be so affected when they pick up a lit sparkler on November 5th. Being forced to eat other people's puke so that our stomachs are better conditioned to deal with attacks from human borne ingested diseases. Being conditioned to doses of radiation; having your hair fall out and boils evolve all over your body, just in case of a nuclear attack by terrorists.They're extreme cases of CONDITIONING but the same thing applies on all levels. Ever seen Clockwork Orange? There's no excuse for subjecting people to that crap. Don't try and justify antisocial behaviour as being deserved by the victim or for the good of the whole. The viewpoint put forward in support of perpetual online viral attack is nonsense, in my opinion. It can cost people alot of stress and businesses ALOT of money to put things straight after severe viral attacks.So maybe if I lose hours and hours of important work time to viral attacks at my workplace network, and it happens when I'm already terribly stressed already and when the IT manager is on holiday or elsewhere. And you sit there and tell me that it would be acceptable for me to work until midnight for a week to make up for lost time and to meet heavy deadlines!?Grrrr! at that, mate.Oh no... hang on... it would be all my own fault. I ask for it. I deserve it because I use Windows 2000 to run my 3DSMAx on. Oh... hang on... there is no 3DSMax for LINUX... mainly because it sucks and is impractical.Wake up, man. Solutions to potential attacks can be worked without real-world viral attacks. Imagine if human-borne viruses were introduced on purpose into the general population just to experiment! Just to keep people on their toes. It's a revolting thought. Even more revolting if the perpetrators were to turn around and say that it's the victims' fault for not wearing their mask at the right time. People responsible for creating viral software might want to think about that. Sick, eh?Simon.p.s. what's that crap about a virus being a speeding ticket on the superhightway!??? LMAO! No, mate. I tell you what it is... it's like driving happily along the highway, going to visit granny, and some 150mph f-wit comes careering over the central reservation and smashes your car to bits, killing your family and friends and leaving you in a bloody pool on the floor. Who's rules were they? Who had no right to be on that highway? Catch my drift?

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>Software may contain bugs without compromising security.>All it takes is the right person at the right job and correct>development procedures to create software.Yeah right. The 'correct person' may be able to create software and infrastructure that he 'thinks' is secure, but then there are 10,000 weasles out there with twisted minds who can always find a way around it if they are motivated. You can't create products that are fexible and comfortable to use and contain invovative technologies without leaving some unforeseen avenue for attack. I remember when anyone could just walk into an airport up to a departure gate. Now they search, x-ray, and chemical sniff your bags, do random frisks, check your shoes, check your ID three times, and find a dozen other ways of making a trip to the airport an ordeal. Yet anyone can buy a 12 inch ceramic knife from a T.V. infomertial, tape it to their leg, and walk onto a plane with it. If you strip searched and flouroscoped everyone you might have a chance, but someone would swallow a time delay chemical grenade. Where there is twisted mind there is always a way around security.Few people have anything against UNIX clones like OpenBSD, and few people have experience with UNIX technology, so they seldom get attacked, but there are thousands of twisted weasles who hate MS and have experience with MS technologies, so MS products get regularly attacked. >The internet still exists and recovers from attacks because it>runs mainly on open source, community created software and>standards. These standards and protocols have been look at by>thousands of enthousiasts and are examined daily by people who are>interested in their functioning. If there are bugs, they will be>found and fixed.The formative years of the Internet were funded by the deep pockets of the U.S. military with the brain power of universities (like GPS). There are no commercial enterprises that would be so generous as to spend hundreds of millions creating such a giant technical system and then hand it over to the world to do with what it wanted. Even with all the backing it had to start with, the Internet still only became viable for the general public when corporations like Netscape, AOL, MS and Google made it user accessible with profit-motivated closed technologies.As to 'open source', that is a eutopian dream and like all eutopian dreams it will crumble. Soviet farmers struggled for the common good of the state against the imperialist enemy for a while but eventually they got tired of back-breaking work to support everyone else. The same will happen with Linux and other such products. There are hundreds of people working on it simply for the joy of putting another pin in Bill Gate's voodoo doll, but if Linux became the world dominant OS, how long do you think people would be donating their efforts for free to provide safe computing for giant billion dollar corporations?Besides that, Linux is just a clone of a 34 year old OS created by other giant 'money grubbing' closed-system corporations who already did the bullwork of security-proofing the OS decades before. Anyone can re-create the wheel, but I don't see any real innovation going on. Open source might be OK for fine tuning an aging technology, but it doesn't seem to produce revolutionary innovation. What for-profit corporation could ever thrive by spending millions in research and development then just opening their new technogies to the world? "Here, have all the source code for Windows XP, I'm sure you will work for free to improve it so we can sell even more copies and continue to make a return on our investment, but please, I'm begging you, don't use the technology in it to bootstrap your own competitive products". Yeah, that will happen. The day MS became 'open source' the weasles would exploit every tiny vulnerability and would drive them into oblivion.

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The most important thing you left out here is that Windows by default is not secure. Linux (UNIX) is by default secure. Just look at the permission structure the next time you create a file. Who has permission to use the file? Look at the default permissions in Linux (UNIX). who has permission to use the file?It is broader than that, however. You are of the opinion that open source is going to disappear because of the profit motive. Why don't you tell that to Red Hat and Mandrake? I am sure they would love for you to enlighten them.

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Why don't you tell it to Corel, who staked their future on Linux and are now living in a cardboard box in an alley scavenging for food. If Red Hat, Mandrake, et al live and thrive for 25 years like MS then we will see.

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>The most important thing you left out here is that Windows by>default is not secure. Linux (UNIX) is by default secure. Just>look at the permission structure the next time you create a>file. Who has permission to use the file? Look at the default>permissions in Linux (UNIX). who has permission to use the>file?Windows NT is by default secure, as are its enterprise level descendants. NT received the military C2 security level. That might not mean much if you bolt on a lot of other stuff and connect it to a network, but the same applies to UNIX and its clones.If you want to micro-manage file permissions and user/group profiles then get an enterprise level Windows OS where you can set owner/group/world permissions, but don't expect my wife to be able to deal with a UNIX file permission sequence like "drwxr-xr-x". That is what I mean that you can't make it simple for non-geeks, the majority of computer users, and still be NSA-level secure.

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