ORBX Textures to Replace UTX Custom Ones

[cvearl 60]

Here's what I'm taking about... the non-blending stand-out textures are the UTX custom textures. They are even worse at night since they are missing lights and are much brighter than nearby ORBX textures. This is what I was looking to fix since ORBX is clearly not "compatible" with UTX.

 

What does it look like when you turn off custom land class in UTX?

 

That's what I was told to do when I asked about the bright stuff that stood out in their forum. I did and it seemed OK to me. But I was not over this exact spot so I can't be sure.

 

I think this screenshot is not so much incompatability as it is a clash of color in the textures that are not perfect. The software is not crashing so they are working together. But I respect you don't like it. Maybe ask ORBX to give you your money back and don't use it anymore. Crappy that they won't though. I'm sticking with it and look forward to replacing my UTX with vector and OpenLC. Without ORBX I would have uninstalled FSX for good long ago. I don't give a rats &@($* what kind of guy JV is. The rest of his crew have some decent hardworking and talented people in it and that's the God Dang trooth right there. I'll keep coming for more.

 

Those that don't like ORBX. Don't buy it. Use something else.

 

C.

[molleh 451]

Here's what I'm taking about... the non-blending stand-out textures are the UTX custom textures. They are even worse at night since they are missing lights and are much brighter than nearby ORBX textures. This is what I was looking to fix since ORBX is clearly not "compatible" with UTX.

 

 

Amusingly enough, the really mismatched "downtown" type texture, the one prevalent in the right half of the image, is one of the FTXG textures. It's the ugliest and most mis-matched texture that comes with FTXG. I'm hoping they'll change it at some point. Its color balance is completely off compared to the other textures, not to mention the texture itself has some really dark shadows that make that texture look almost like it's full of glitches/artifacts. I actually saw a thread shortly after FTXG released asking "what are these black squares everywhere?" but it was just the shadows in that downtown/dense urban texture...

 

But that's besides the point, I know what you mean about the actual UTX custom textures. They are a good fit for FSX default but way too light compared to FTXG, and also completely different in terms of night lighting.

 

Edit: I might be wrong, looking closer.. it looks like you might have had GEX installed prior to FTXG meaning that texture could be GEX's replacement of the UTX industrial texture.. sorry to be confusing, lol.

[cvearl 60]

Take a deep breath friend. He's talking hypothetical and not "after the fact", so as of yet, he hasn't violated anything. However, were Cvearl actually to do that, first, they would not be approved by our lib managers, and he would be permanently banned from AVSIM as it would be a violation of Copyright on the face of it.

This is sincerely good to hear. I would fight to protect anything I made. Very cool that AVSIM would have my back.

 

C.

[Kangaby 14]

 

 

Take a deep breath friend. He's talking hypothetical and not "after the fact"

 

I know he hasn't actually done it. I was answering the "Should I or anyone else" question.

[sascha 314]

Not being able to get rid of it, inaccurate claims regarding compatibility, and the inability remove the product without doing a complete reinstall (mine takes days to do) really have me concerned. I was seriously thinking about buying Global this weekend, but now I have to question motives and ethics.

 

Just investigating and questioning at this point, not calling it either way.

 

 

 

Dave

I think an uninstaller is being developed for FTXG if it was not released already. Couldn't find a release announcement so it might just be rumour.

 

Sascha

 

 

What does it look like when you turn off custom land class in UTX?

 

That's what I was told to do when I asked about the bright stuff that stood out in their forum. I did and it seemed OK to me. But I was not over this exact spot so I can't be sure.

 

Telling people to just turn off the conflicting program or main features (landcalss is the main reason I keep UT ) is one way of fixing conflicts ... LOL

[cvearl 60]

I think an uninstaller is being developed for FTXG if it was not released already. Couldn't find a release announcement so it might just be rumour.

 

Sascha

 

Telling people to just turn off the conflicting program or main features (landcalss is the main reason I keep UT ) is one way of fixing conflicts ... LOL

You don't have FTXG? Personally, I think where colors are not entirely complimentary, is not the same as incompatible. BTW, there is an uninstaller. Has been for several days now.

 

C.

Amusingly enough, the really mismatched "downtown" type texture, the one prevalent in the right half of the image, is one of the FTXG textures. It's the ugliest and most mis-matched texture that comes with FTXG. I'm hoping they'll change it at some point. Its color balance is completely off compared to the other textures, not to mention the texture itself has some really dark shadows that make that texture look almost like it's full of glitches/artifacts. I actually saw a thread shortly after FTXG released asking "what are these black squares everywhere?" but it was just the shadows in that downtown/dense urban texture...

 

But that's besides the point, I know what you mean about the actual UTX custom textures. They are a good fit for FSX default but way too light compared to FTXG, and also completely different in terms of night lighting.

 

Edit: I might be wrong, looking closer.. it looks like you might have had GEX installed prior to FTXG meaning that texture could be GEX's replacement of the UTX industrial texture.. sorry to be confusing, lol.

Actually, I think he is referring to that little ugly light grey patch next to the river. Its very small in that shot. Not ORBX fault. Its an ugly UTX texture that I have turned off long before the announcement of FTXG. Again. Not incompatible. Just fugly. Their tool has an option to turn these things off thankfully.

 

C.

[pilotjohn 19]

What does it look like when you turn off custom land class in UTX?

 

Some of it goes away but some of it stays even when I disable custom LC and custom polys. Telling me to turn it off is like telling me that I can have both Chrom and Firefox installed, but when I install Firefox, Chrome will render some pages incorrectly. Sure I can have both installed, but are they compatible?

 

 

Amusingly enough, the really mismatched "downtown" type texture, the one prevalent in the right half of the image, is one of the FTXG textures. It's the ugliest and most mis-matched texture that comes with FTXG. I'm hoping they'll change it at some point. Its color balance is completely off compared to the other textures, not to mention the texture itself has some really dark shadows that make that texture look almost like it's full of glitches/artifacts. I actually saw a thread shortly after FTXG released asking "what are these black squares everywhere?" but it was just the shadows in that downtown/dense urban texture...

 

 

I don't think the right side stuff is FTXG. The top 75% actually go away if I disable custom LC. The bottom right stays. And these are missing night lighting and have that UTX pre-lit look to them.

[Orbx 123]

Oh boy the bush lawyers have come out to play

 

Please if I may, allow me to clear up a few things?

 

Firstly, I am not some money sucking $^%hole who cares for nothing but trying to get every last cent from unsuspecting customers and by deceiving them with false marketing claims. If you read this topic it would appear as though I am a tyrant controlling poor minions making stuff you all like and want but who must really hate working for big bad JV and Orbx because he's such a bad selfish guy.

 

Seriously folks, some of you need to get a grip on reality. Here's the facts of the matter:

 

1. Most people who have actually met me find me to be a pleasant and reasonable person who is quite social, relaxed and fun. Yes I have a penchant for sarcasm, call it a character flaw. Hardly the profile of an egomaniac exploitive tyrant being portrayed here. Ask any one of the Orbx team who have met me what I am like and you'll get an honest answer. Ask anyone who has crossed me, stolen from me, peeved me and you'll get an equally honest answer, usually along the line of "he does not put up with BS from anyone".

 

2. Orbx has written permission from MS in 2007 to modify core FSX files as long as they are backed up and switched. That's what we do, so whilst we do things outside the SDK in some instances (which we must do to make FTX anyway), we are within the bounds of the permission we got from ACES. End of argument on that one.

 

3. My reply to the OP was specifically about Orbx's unique intellectual property, being *our* textures (not modified Microsoft ones) which are unique to our product and do not fall under any copyright or content control from Microsoft. It's the standard reply I give to any post on any forum where we see the potential for our intellectual property to be abused. Sorry if I did not appear to be politically correct in the construct of my reply. The whole intent of the FSX SDK was for third party companies to create new unique content which those third party companies own and control. We are totally within our rights as a company to protect our IP and that is all we do, and vigorously. This hysteria being bandied about which accuses Orbx of stealing MS textures and modifying them is just nonsense and bordering on being libelous. Please think about what you post in regard to such claims.

 

4. You don't *own* any Orbx software. You only pay for a license to use it. You don't have permission to modify it, share modified copies of it, share code or apps that move our files around in public or use any one of our files. That has been made clear to everyone for the last seven years since our first product so I am somewhat surprised that people now think we're being unreasonable in protecting our IP? I had no problem with AVSIMmers finding a solution to the vector lights because it involves modifying a core FSX file terrain.cfg, not any Orbx files. See the difference?

 

5. We have never promised anywhere on our forums or website that FTX Global would create unique new textures to replace the UTX landclass textures which ship with it. Why would we do that? It's not our place to stomp on another vendors' textures without first contacting them and forming a working partnership with Allen and Flight1 to do so. We would have made a specific point in our marketing that we catered specifically for UTX and indeed added vector lights and their landclass textures for perfect integration.  Nope - we did not claim that, all we said it was "compatible". And it is 100% compatible and works perfectly fine when FTX Global is installed. Indeed all the screenshots which we still have on our official product page for FTX Global that show UTX + FTX Global are from my laptop where I installed UTX USA and just pressed the V key. No deception, no misleading, no false promises.

 

It does begin to grate on the whole Orbx team when we're repeatedly accused of being misleading, photoshopping screenshots, making false claims - the list goes on. Anyone who has legitimately purchased an Orbx product knows it delivers exactly what it says on the box and they generally come back as repeat customers. I say "generally" come back because there is a small segment of the market that seems to think developers and vendors need a 100-page manifesto attached to every product released to cover off every single caveat and possible infringement of people's consumer rights. (Sarcasm intended).

 

Finally, we have no obligation at all to add new textures to ensure UTX is a seamlessly integrated addon with FTX Global. We are releasing our own competitive vector product in partnership with PILOT'S so why do you think we would go out of our way to add such integration? Clearly it should have made sense to anyone who knows even a little about landclass scenery that if UTX comes with its own 3D lighting and custom textures that you would not see the FTX Global lighting and textures when those are enabled? Why don't you disable them in the UTX control panel and then get the full benefit of our tech? That's what I expect the majority of people do, but then again I am addressing a small vocal minority here.

 

I am sure this post will be pulled apart, quoted ad infinitum, bush-lawyered too hell and it will provide for a tasty meal for those who need a feed, but I feel that we really do have to spend far too much time as a team on explaining ourselves to such a small vocal group of people that I begin to wonder if we are in the right business at all. Perhaps we should go do something else where our work is appreciated a bit more instead of being ripped apart, stolen, unfairly criticised and generally the whole team, (not just me) given a bad taste in our mouth by only a few inconsiderate people.

 

Would you rather Orbx did not continue to support FSX, keep releasing new content, keep reinvesting its income to more R&D and expanding its team? Keep doing what you're doing and you may just get your wish.

[cvearl 60]

Respectfully, Actually, I do want to hear / anhem. Older posts tend to get buried, and not everyone visits every forum.

 

It's always good to hear both sides of the story, especially as it developes. I'm not rich/wealthy, and as I'm maintaining a household and have other financial responsibilities I have to watch what I choose to purchase carefully.

 

I thank the user for taking the time to tell another side of the story. I"m a potential ORBX customer, and I've got some reason concerns thanks to alternative viewpoints.

 

I'm sure you wouldn't want someone censoring you, especially if it was something you felt strongly about, so please don't try to censor someone else. It's just not right.

 

The community deserves to know.

 

 

 

Respectfully,

 

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

I have to be honest here, there are a number of ORBX posts that I find disturbing for many reasons.

 

Having a product dominate the FS community because it's the best is one thing. Not being able to get rid of it, inaccurate claims regarding compatibility, and the inability remove the product without doing a complete reinstall (mine takes days to do) really have me concerned. I was seriously thinking about buying Global this weekend, but now I have to question motives and ethics.

 

Just investigating and questioning at this point, not calling it either way.

 

 

 

Dave

Don't buy Global until Vector and OpenLC are available for your favorite area. FSX's default LC and Vector are severely lacking. FTXG just provides a new set of tiles to lay on the ground but don't actually correct anything. So if you don't like seeing a forest where farmland belongs, FTXG will not fix that. It will emphasize it.

 

Watch for the release of Iceland demo. It will be in October I believe and will demonstrate FTXG+Vector+OpenLC. From there, Vector is the whole globe released at the same time as the demo. Open LC Europe will come a month later followed by the americas LC sometime before Christmas?

 

But I predict people will always complain about something. Like color... Vector interaction not aligned with textures. Some airport they own not blending well. Should be an interesting 2014 if this thread is any indication.

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

 

 

Should be an interesting 2014 if this thread is any indication.

 

 

Yeah, that's good advice.

 

One thing that this type of thing has ALWAYS done in Flight Sim, is spur developers forward. We all benefit in the end, but the pain of birth, man!

 

 

 

Dave

[pilotjohn 19]

Oh boy the bush lawyers have come out to play

 

Please if I may, allow me to clear up a few things?

Thanks jV. All other posts/discussions aside, I was simply looking for a private community solution to make this all work and continue for it to be enjoyable instead of me avoiding certain areas (wasn't the reason I bought FTXG so I can fly in areas where I normally wouldn't? - It was, but now I'm back to avoiding them again).

 

No one ever said anything about making programs public to move files around etc. It was simply a request to the well-meaning FSX community to see if there was a solution to this texture mismatch issue as there was to the night lighting. I don't even expect ORBX to make replacement texture. I just want to know how I can get them to match. From reading other threads, we're talking about less than a dozen replacements.

 

But in all fairness, as some of my posts point out, I'm looking to have the full ORBX experience while maintaing all the great things UTX provides (the enhanced LC, polys etc.). Right now, I cannot because of the texture mismatch, and I can clearly tell if I'm flying over an ares that clashes. I think some of my analogies cover this.

 

So what I'm getting is an either or situation. I either not use FTXG at all (in which case I'm back to where I was and out $100) or I disable/cripple some of the features of UTX (but that still doesn't completely eliminate all the mismatch - it eliminates maybe 80%), or I disable UTX completely. None of these are great solutions. A great solution is to simply get those silly textures to match which is likely possible and would be a 15 minute effort to reveal by either organization. Instead, as entertaining as it is, we've got this soap opera.

[IUBrian 151]

Perhaps I am one of those to whom the "bush lawyering" reference is directed; not sure if that's an ad hominem reply or an example of the self-described humor and sarcasm, but I will assume the latter.

 

I don't think I could fairly described as one of those inconsiderate critics of ORBX, even if my reply was sarcastic.

 

First things first - I, as well as many others who have been critical of ORBX, acknowledge that its products are top notch, and you have truly been an innovator. That fact has, I'm sure, caused your competitors concern, and has generated criticism that could accurately be described as unfair and misleading. Further, if ORBX did not create such compelling products, no one would care; people would simply refuse to purchase, and ORBX would die on the vine.

 

My criticism has been directed towards ORBX's attitude, to the FS community in general, and its customers in particular, as exemplified by your gratuitous response to the OP, as well as the second reply. Further, while I can appreciate your aggravation as a team at unfair criticism and unrealistic expectations, your second reply, while ostensibly a justification, did not excuse the unreasonably threatening tenor of the initial reply, and the threat to "take your ball and go home" is the response of a petulant child, not a professional business.

 

As is the case of almost all criticism directed towards ORBX, I'm sure my comments will be dismissed, and certainly ORBX is under no obligation to change how it responds to people, and as long as it remains profitable, I doubt it will do so.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[Orbx 123]

Thanks jV. All other posts/discussions aside, I was simply looking for a private community solution to make this all work and continue for it to be enjoyable instead of me avoiding certain areas (wasn't the reason I bought FTXG so I can fly in areas where I normally wouldn't? - It was, but now I'm back to avoiding them again).

 

No one ever said anything about making programs public to move files around etc. It was simply a request to the well-meaning FSX community to see if there was a solution to this texture mismatch issue as there was to the night lighting. I don't even expect ORBX to make replacement texture. I just want to know how I can get them to match. From reading other threads, we're talking about less than a dozen replacements.

 

But in all fairness, as some of my posts point out, I'm looking to have the full ORBX experience while maintaing all the great things UTX provides (the enhanced LC, polys etc.). Right now, I cannot because of the texture mismatch, and I can clearly tell if I'm flying over an ares that clashes. I think some of my analogies cover this.

 

So what I'm getting is an either or situation. I either not use FTXG at all (in which case I'm back to where I was and out $100) or I disable/cripple some of the features of UTX (but that still doesn't completely eliminate all the mismatch - it eliminates maybe 80%), or I disable UTX completely. None of these are great solutions. A great solution is to simply get those silly textures to match which is likely possible and would be a 15 minute effort to reveal by either organization. Instead, as entertaining as it is, we've got this soap opera.

 

 

Hi John,

 

Yes I do understand your original intent but it was not clear to me if you also wanted to create a way to port our textures. I am more miffed about the outcry and hullabaloo that followed my post more than anything else, it really does get out of control too quickly, too often.

 

I know and respect the work of Allen Kriesman (the UTX developer); I've had dinner with him, communicate with him now and again and we even licensed some of his custom tools for Orbx to use on our regions development. That may surprise some folks. People read far too much into things and imply sinister industrial espionage etc.

 

If Allen or Flight1 want to work with Orbx to release a texture compatibility patch of some sorts I am open to the idea, but since we've announced a competitive vector product that option may now be less viable now. That said I am open to ideas because UTX does have a strong market share given it's had it to itself for six years or so.

 

 

your second reply, while ostensibly a justification, did not excuse the unreasonably threatening tenor of the initial reply, and the threat to "take your ball and go home" is the response of a petulant child, not a professional business.

 

 

Indeed I had almost added the "take the ball and .." analogy to my long reply above but I thought it would not take too long for someone to say those very words. You get the prize Brian!  :lol:

 

I have never been anything else other than unapologetically terse when I see any post about potential manipulation of Orbx assets. In some cases the community has benefited from this approach, as in the case of Gordon Madison over at FSDeveloper who was using our Orbxlibs without fully understanding the implications of doing so. Long story short? He's now on the Orbx development team and the community has benefited from his outstanding skills with the release of CBB7 Tipella as freeware.

 

So now I can add being a petulant child and unprofessional to the laundry list of pleasantries aimed in my direction. Thank you.

[pilotjohn 19]

Hi John,

 

Yes I do understand your original intent but it was not clear to me if you also wanted to create a way to port our textures. I am more miffed about the outcry and hullabaloo that followed my post more than anything else, it really does get out of control too quickly, too often.

 

I know and respect the work of Allen Kriesman (the UTX developer); I've had dinner with him, communicate with him now and again and we even licensed some of his custom tools for Orbx to use on our regions development. That may surprise some folks. People read far too much into things and imply sinister industrial espionage etc.

 

If Allen or Flight1 want to work with Orbx to release a texture compatibility patch of some sorts I am open to the idea, but since we've announced a competitive vector product that option may now be less viable now. That said I am open to ideas because UTX does have a strong market share given it's had it to itself for six years or so.

 

Perhaps I should have been more clear that I'm simply looking to know which ORBX textures a person at their own risk (without support) could copy to replace the custom UTX ones (e.g. backup file B, copy file A to the same name as the original B). I think that's really the solution that would fix all this. This is a minor effort from the developers, but for me (not being intimately familiar with scenery stuff) is an undertaking, which is why I reached out to the community that seems so adapt at fixing many things in this very odd hobby.

 

Does it mean I won't buy FTXG Vector if this information is magically revealed? No, of course not. FTXGV could be the best thing since sliced bread and ORBX can have another $65. But while waiting for all that I would like to enjoy the little time I do spend simming instead of getting frustrated at the disconnect. Anyway, I hope this thread gets back on topic, maybe even with solution to come.

[cvearl 60]

I really like how this thread is concluding. People being fair and honest. Hey. It's a community!

 

I actually like that you came and publically shared your feelings JV. No one will ever be 100% satisfied but I really hope ORBX never takes their ball and goes home. I kind of like the color they painted it.

 

Charles.