I don't see myself as an Orbx ###### or anything else. I do however agree with JV in that for what ever reason, the members here are allowed to make some pretty nasty attacks on some companies. That is any case the reason for less than friendly replies from folks like JV and Flight1's Jim. As a person who looks for the best products that make "my" enjoyment grow, I never understand folks like Alan who seems to hate every idea that was not his on. These conversations and attacks do nothing to advance the hobby.

 

If a few mis-matched textures cause this type of up-roar, then I can just imagine how it will be here when LM releases Ver 2.0 of their product. If the entry that you are about to type contains any words like legal, law, sue, or many of the other terms thrown into the fray, I would strongly ask that you stop and give them a lot of thought before hitting enter. In most cases, you will be smart and correct to remove words.

 

The only truth about this subject is that at least 99.9% of us have never had any access to the legal agreements of any company that makes the products we use. The best example of that is the world famous LM P3D garbage out there. Until you have read their agreement with MS, then you have no grounds to make statements about what is legal or not. None, 0, zero, null and on and on). For example, there may be an agreement that after December 31, 2014 LM has the right to sell Prepar3D in any fashion and yes even as a game. Take it futher and it may be that LM will only allow Orbx scenery to be used in that program. Now wouldn't that put some extra gas in your bloomers!!

John, I'm sure you are a nice guy (most people are when you have met them in person), but in this instance you fed the trolls yourself. Swift legal action is a threat I think most people take seriously and as a reply to an innocent question it was rather harsh, especially consdering that your forums are full of tips on how to make FTX scenery work alongside other scenery. Not all of us are computer geeks you know, even though we've had to learn quite a bit of stuff to get that darn sim running. Thanks for shoving up and explaining your stance.

 

I don't subscribe to all these conspiracy theories, I just want my sim to look the best, and FTX is best at what they are doing no doubt. Sadly though, you still have a lot of ground to cover (pun intended) so we'll have to live with trying to make various addons work in harmony. It's not an easy task for the layman, and telleing apart which file I can move or edit without breaching copyright is beyond my understanding.

 

That said, I appreciate what you guys are doing, I have the receipts to prove it, but I sure hope communication doesn't need to be as confrontational. Why shoot sparrows with a cannon? The complexity of FSX is above most peoples comprehension. Give your customers the benefit of the doubt sometimes, that's all I'm saying.

Let me go on record to say that I did not mention the 'T' (troll) word first, that was Simmerhead!  :lol:

I'll be watching these latest developments from the comfort of my sofa with a couple of beer and a BIG bucket of pop-corn in hand but first...

 

Since Sam think I hate ideas that are not mind or I'm on the attack I will respectfully disagree with him and say that I like to see both side of the coin and be fully informed regardless of the outcome, I also have to give credit to JV for the damage control showed here. 

 

Also, since John is welling to answer our (your) questions I sure would like an answer to this one, and I'll be quoting him first...

 

Quote" 2. Orbx has written permission from MS in 2007 to modify core FSX files as long as they are backed up and switched. That's what we do, so whilst we do things outside the SDK in some instances (which we must do to make FTX anyway), we are within the bounds of the permission we got from ACES. End of argument on that one." end of quote.

 

Now the question is...where is the switch button with FTXG? Further more, after installing FTXG (assuming you have FTX) the switch button in the FTX panel also disappear...removed....what can be the goal or the long term effect of that, so, (unless I'm missing something I do not understand, or maybe I do) how does that follow the 2007 written permission from MS?

 

 

 

I really I hope ORBX never takes their ball and goes home.kind of like the color they painted it.

 

 

If a ball is painted does it not then change the physical characteristics of the ball? ie affect the physics of the bounce?

Let me go on record to say that I did not mention the 'T' (troll) word first, that was Simmerhead!  :lol:

 

Guilty as charged!

I am sure this post will be pulled apart, quoted ad infinitum, bush-lawyered too hell and it will provide for a tasty meal for those who need a feed, but I feel that we really do have to spend far too much time as a team on explaining ourselves to such a small vocal group of people that I begin to wonder if we are in the right business at all. Perhaps we should go do something else where our work is appreciated a bit more instead of being ripped apart, stolen, unfairly criticised and generally the whole team, (not just me) given a bad taste in our mouth by only a few inconsiderate people.

 

 

 

Would you rather Orbx did not continue to support FSX, keep releasing new content, keep reinvesting its income to more R&D and expanding its team? Keep doing what you're doing and you may just get your wish.

 

As a former potential client, that's perfectly fine with me if you decide to search for greener pastures.  I do not own your products, nor no longer have a desire to now.  You say "unfairly" but you can't honestly say that this backlash wasn't unsolicted by your own statements and demeanor.  Do you not think your attitude is at worst immature and at best defensive (understandably so)?  But I think you completely misunderstood the original topic at hand.  I do not think the original poster ever inteded to publicise or steal your original content, but just how one could move assets from one area to another on their own (no assets going into public domain).

 

And "fully compatible" with UTX as stated on your own website to me means without compromise.  I've been intently watching FTX Global as a possible addon to my UTX but from current users it sounds like there are a number of compromises required currently and I would suggest you reword that on your website to avoid misleading the less informed. 

 

My opinion doesn't carry much weight as I've chosen not to buy ORBX products, and that's fine.  I wish you luck in your future endeavors, FSX or otherwise. 

Actually our website says no such thing as "fully compatible with UTX". Did you visit the website and read the product description? I guess not.

 

For the record it states:

 

- Works with all 3rd party landclass products

- Works with all 3rd party mesh products

 

http://fullterrain.com/product_ftxglobal.html

 

And there endeth my participation in this topic. Good day to one and all.

Thanks for stopping by John and addressing some of the points in this thread, it's appreciated.

 

In particular I'd like to take you up on the following:

 

 

 

We would have made a specific point in our marketing that we catered specifically for UTX and indeed added vector lights and their landclass textures for perfect integration.  Nope - we did not claim that, all we said it was "compatible". And it is 100% compatible and works perfectly fine when FTX Global is installed. Indeed all the screenshots which we still have on our official product page for FTX Global that show UTX + FTX Global are from my laptop where I installed UTX USA and just pressed the V key. No deception, no misleading, no false promises.

 

You said UTX was "compatible" with FTXG. I'm not going to argue the semantics here but there is clearly a rather large caveat attached to "compatible" when talking about UTX - and that is FTXG road vector lights do not work when a user has UTX enabled. I find it very difficult to believe that nobody at Orbx knew about this incompatibility before release.

 

So we have an incompatibility issue between one of the headline features of FTXG and a very popular scenery product that you know a lot of your potential customers will have installed, and one that you have actually stated is compatible with FTXG.

 

Why wasn't this caveat mentioned earlier? When I first noticed the road lights were missing I thought there might be a problem with my setup. I checked your support forums and noticed a few others with similar problems. The replies from both yourself and your support staff weren't particularly helpful. Why did you still not tell your customers the FTXG road vector lights don't work with UTX?

 

Why did it take a thread here on Avsim involving several of your customers digging around the terrain.cfg trying to get things to work before you actually acknowledged there was an incompatibility?

 

 

Clearly it should have made sense to anyone who knows even a little about landclass scenery that if UTX comes with its own 3D lighting and custom textures that you would not see the FTX Global lighting and textures when those are enabled?

 

Sorry John but saying the customer should have known your lights don't work with UTX is just wrong. The vast majority of your customers are not scenery designers and have no appreciation of how FTXG's lighting system works. Your assurance that UTX was compatible and posting screenshots of the two working together should have been enough for us.

 

Just out of curiosity John did you ever post any screenshots of FTXG and UTX running at night with the FTXG lights enabled?

 

If you did then you could shoot my entire argument down in flames right now and I'll apologise profusely. If you didn't post any such screenshots then I think it just reinforces my point that you weren't entirely straight with us when you claimed UTX compatibility. Not to mention DX10 compatibility either, but I'll let someobody else take you to task on that.

 

 

John, I'm not one of the incessant Orbx bashers. I have been an Orbx customer since the beginning. I own every single FSX product you guys have released. This is the first time I've felt you have been slightly disingenuous in publicising one of your products prior to release. I enjoy FTXG and all my other Orbx stuff, but there's a really fine line between feeling like I've not been told the whole story befor handing my credit card number over, and feeling like I've been taken for a mug.

 

What I've written above is with no malice or ill feeling. I want to see you guys continue to produce products that improve my flight sim enjoyment. Please take it as honest feedback from a long time loyal customer.

For some reason, a "Seinfeld" episode about a man who sells soup comes to mind...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

Actually our website says no such thing as "fully compatible with UTX". Did you visit the website and read the product description? I guess not.

 

Taken directly from the FTXG user guide:

 

Actually our website says no such thing as "fully compatible with UTX". Did you visit the website and read the product description? I guess not.

 

For the record it states:

 

- Works with all 3rd party landclass products

- Works with all 3rd party mesh products

 

http://fullterrain.com/product_ftxglobal.html

 

And there endeth my participation in this topic. Good day to one and all.

 

And this ladies and gentlemen is the way to evade a VALID and LEGITIMATE question from my post #63...and others.

 

 

Taken directly from the FTXG user guide:

 

 

Why do I get a sinking feeling that I have to take my ball and go home. There will be no help forthcoming for getting UTX to be fully compatible, and there will likely be more chest pounding if anyone does post info on replacing the appropriate textures.

 

I do think this thread has taken on a life of its own. But if we go back and evaluate what would have stopped this from blowing up, it's ORBX simply saying:  "Our bad, we overlooked something, sorry. We can't muck with someone else's stuff, but if you want to muck about it on your own, here's what you can do on your own in an unofficial fashion..." (maybe as a warning/note in the documentation). That effectively would have a put an end to this entire thread in very short order.

Why do I get a sinking feeling that I have to take my ball and go home. There will be no help forthcoming for getting UTX to be fully compatible, and there will likely be more chest pounding if anyone does post info on replacing the appropriate textures.

 

I do think this thread has taken on a life of its own. But if we go back and evaluate what would have stopped this from blowing up, it's ORBX simply saying:  "Our bad, we overlooked something, sorry. We can't muck with someone else's stuff, but if you want to muck about it on your own, here's what you can do on your own in an unofficial fashion..." (maybe as a warning/note in the documentation). That effectively would have a put an end to this entire thread in very short order.

 

PilotJohn, tell me you still do not understand why it is like it is, it would have take to the Orbx developers no more then 30 minutes at best to fix what ever is not working properly, and not only with FTXG/UTX but other add on, why have they not do so?....do you think that their upcoming product competing with UTX (and their other add on) will have these kind of compatibility problems with FTXG?....of course not,...I guess it's a conspiracy from us.

PilotJohn, tell me you still do not understand why it is like it is, it would have take to the Orbx developers no less 30 minutes at best to fix what ever is not working properly, and not only with FTXG/UTX but other add on, why have they not do so?....do you think that their upcoming product competing with UTX (and their other add on) will have these kind of compatibility problems with FTXG?....of course not,...I guess it's a conspiracy from us.

 

Oh I see it... I'm just trying to get the root cause resolved. As cathartic as this thread is for some, it's doing very little to convince ORBX to help. Now I'm simply trying (apparently unsuccessfully) to relay that ORBX has very little if anything to lose by offering a solution. My intent was not for this exchange, but to find a way for two products to work well together (in the end for the good of the community and of course for my own selfish reasons). I hope it's not too late for that, but I fear it may be. 

So it sounds like someone found a solution: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/419199-no-vector-road-lights-with-utx/page-4#entry2796533

 

But it also looks like he/she was scared away by the response from ORBX in this thread.

 

This is unfortunate and proves a lot of people's points from above.