Replacing I7 930 system

[NGXfanatic 85]

I just wanted to drop in and report that after some serious thought, I have decided to do things correctly and basically start from scratch when I build my new system, and that includes wiping the OS and FSX hard drives and, *gasp*, clean reinstalling!

 

I figured that if I'm going to invest in top shelf Haswell parts, there is no point in cramming it into my old Antec 900 mid tower case.  That is like transplanting a BMW M3 engine into a honda accord.   After careful studying of NickN's new bible post (google it, it's really mindblowing stuff) I have chosen the exact same parts he has, including a nice full size tower with proper airflow and 4 fans.   At first, I thought I could just drop in a new mobo and cpu and all is well, but if I want to get a decent overclock that uses the Haswell chip to it's full potential, I have to get the big CPU cooler that would not fit in my Antec mid tower.   And now, with the acceptance that a mild upgrade has turned into a clean sheet rebuild from the ground up, it makes no sense to half &@($* things and just drop the untouched OS and FSX drives into the new system and just overwrite the old drivers.  In addition to the possibilty of minor driver conflicts or other behind the scenes issues, I have had to repair the OS two times this year, as recently as a few days ago because I was defragging my OS drive when the power was interupted.   The OS repair pretty much fixed things, but I have noticed things just aren't the same since the first repair a few months ago, I get sporatic blue screens and other anomolies, and you know what, it's time to start anew.   Just the data corruption on my OS drive after the power surge is all the convincing I need to start from a clean slate, PITA it may be.   It's been ingrained in me that new hardware deserves a clean OS drive, so be it!

 

Here is the list of the parts I just ordered from Newegg and Amazon.  The only holdover is my PSU, which I just bought to replace a dead predecessor last December.

 

CPU - Intel Core I7-4770k Haswell 3.5GHZ

Mobo - Asus Sabertooth Z87 LGA 1150 USB 3.0 SATA 6 Gb/s

Memory - G.Skill Trident X 8 GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200)

CPU Cooler - Thermalright Archon SB-E x2

GPU -  EVGA Superclocked GTX 770 2GB PCI 3.0

Case - Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced

 

Nick N recommends nothing less than a GTX 780 for a system with these specs, but I can't justify the $250 premium over the 770.  The 770 has a higher processor and memory clock, but 1 GB less VRAM, and its 256bit vs 384bit memory.   I feel bad for not springing for the 780, as if it's selling the new system short, but I just can't get over the price differential, and it's not like I am driving a big monitor or multiple monitors to feel the effect of a 3GB video card.   Perhaps I can switch if prices drop next year...

 

Thanks to everyone for their advice, I am looking forward to the new build, and can't wait to see how the PMDG 777 will feel in a fresh new system!    Regarding my apprehension to spending a week or two getting FSX back up to where I am with a clean install, it looks like the PMDG 777 excitement has died down a bit, I have had my fill of long hauls, and there's still time before two addons I'm looking forward to are finished, FS2crew 777 and Active Sky Next.   I will be sure to let you all know how the build goes, and I think it's safe to say that after 3 1/2 years, FSX is going to feel like a new sim with the new hardware! 

[Boomer 1,619]

 

 

Haswell is really all about efficiency, and geared towards the laptop crowd. This is not the chip platform I was looking forward to upgrading to 3 years ago.

 

Agreed.

 

Would not an o/c ivy bridge K be a better choice for prices vs performance gains?

 

I am moving from an i7920 in Nov and am seriously looking at the IB rather than haswell.

[Boomer 1,619]

 

 

Nick N recommends nothing less than a GTX 780 for a system with these specs

 

Yeah but Nick lives in a perfect world.  We all have budgets.  I submit that a good mobo/cpu upgrade and an okay gpu is still better than no upgrade, there's always going to be some kinda bottleneck IMHO.  Really, IMHO, it's a fool's errand trying to completely eliminate bottlenecks.

[dbw1 444]

I recently upgraded from a I7-960. 580gtx to the I7-4770k, 780gtx 3 gig superclocked, 16 gigs ram.....I run the cpu @ 4.2.Works great. Should be good for a few years now. The difference in costs between going midway on performance as opposed to going full bore is really not that much more. I really crunched numbers and for me it made sense spending about 25% more to do what I did. And, I'm happy with the result.

Dave

[Boomer 1,619]

 

 

I really crunched numbers and for me it made sense spending about 25% more to do what I did

 

One Canadian to another:  what was the final cost and from where did you buy your components, please?

[dbw1 444]

Memory Express. They're are all across western Canada. Here they are pretty much all gamers so they know their stuff. They suggest without being pushy. Price for everything, without having receipts in front of me, motherboard, cpu, gpu, ram, misc bits and pieces, labour, taxes etc was about $1500-1600. The techs are helpful, don't mind questions. I've done previous upgrades there. I have found it a good place to do business.

[NGXfanatic 85]

Hi folks, just checking in here with some updates. I have taken delivery of the parts, and I'm typing this on the new rig!   Ultimately, I opted for the 780 over the 770.  I really agonized over the GPU choice, but the way I see it, I would be short changing the otherwise perfectly tuned balance of my Haswell rig by opting for the 770.  It's not cheap, but all told, the whole system is $1500, which is inline with what I normally spend on new rigs.  What a difference a month makes, I first thought a simple Sandy Bridge "refresh" of my old 930 I7 rig for about $800 or so would do the trick, but the more I thought about it, why go with an almost 3 year old chip when I can have the latest and greatest, even if it's not the best bang for the buck.  If I'm going to be using this new rig for the next 3 year or so, why not go with the latest hardware especially as more high fidelity and resource hungry addons keep getting released?   And a clean install is imperative because of some corruption issues that have crept over the years, it would make no sense to hamstring the fresh new rig with the previous rig's OS and FSX install carried over intact and any hidden issues that may entail. 

 

Anyhow, here's the list of parts I had ordered:

 

CPU - Intel Core I7-4770k Haswell 3.5GHZ

Mobo - Asus Sabertooth Z87 LGA 1150 USB 3.0 SATA 6 Gb/s

Memory - G.Skill Trident X 8 GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200)

CPU Cooler - Thermalright Archon SB-E x2

GPU -  EVGA GTX 780 Superclocked w/ACX Cooler 3 GB 

Case - Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced

 

I ran into a slight problem though, the Asus Sabertooth motherboard has 2 defective RAM slots, the B1 and B2 slots.  I have the 8 GBs running in XMS profile in the first channel, A1 and A2, ok, but I will need to RMA the board :angry:     Kinda sucks after spending so much time setting things up, but things could be worse right?   Luckily I ordered this though Amazon, which makes returns/replacements incredibly easy.  I am worried about the time it will take to get the replacement mobo, and hope that I can get the replacement board first before I return the defective part, I have to see how this works with Amazon.   If not, I will just take out the PSU from the new rig and put it back in the old 930 system to tide me over until I can complete the rest of the build with the properly functioning mobo.  This is the first time I have ever had to RMA a part during the construction of a new rig, and consider myself lucky that I never had to face this issue with my 3 previous builds.

 

Anyhow, I am taking my time, following NickN's bible post to the letter, and enjoying this little project, slight setbacks and all.  I have learned much over the past few months about optimizing my OS and FSX setup, and cherish this moment where I can start on a clean slate and correct old bad habits.   This will be my finest FSX rig ever, and will be the first time I feel like I have the best parts to allow FSX to run at it's full potential, at what I consider the best time to be a FSX fanatic, considering the exciting new addons we have to look forward to in the next year or so!

[westman 257]

Nice rig , i prefer the 4770k and if you not have the budget go for 4670k wy go for IB?

The 4670k normal chip OC 100mhz less than a 4770k , but if you ar lucky it can OC better.

[dbw1 444]

NGX Fanatic....

 

My hardware upgrade was pretty much the same as yours except I went with 16 gigs ram. Cost for 16 as opposed to 8 is minimal and even though today we don't really need it I was thinking down the road a couple of years I might be glad I did. This id a pretty solid rig that should be good for several years. Previous upgrade included a 120 gig ssd for the o/s and a 512 gig ssd exclusively for fsx. Was talking to my tech at memory Express a couple days ago and he mentioned they are now seeing 1TB ssd's becoming affordable now - $6-700 where a year ago they were about $2000.

Dave

[NGXfanatic 85]

Hey Dave, great minds.....

 

I hear ya on the 16 gigs, but I really don't see any need now or in the near future for the extra 8 gigs.  4 gigs was cutting it close on the old rig, but I think 8 is more than enough for my needs as I only run FSX and a few ancillary apps (like AS2012, google earth) and a web browser.   It sure would be a different story if FSX used more than 4 gigs of course.

 

I suppose getting the extra RAM now would be like playing the stock market, or oil futures, locking in low prices now in anticipation of asset price increases down the road.  I found prices pretty stable recently, I paid more per gig in 2010.  I do remember volatile prices back in the late 90s/early 2000s, I remember thinking of "flipping" RAM in those days!

 

The SSD prices, even at $600 for a TB, is still too expensive for the benefits.  If FPS were impacted, I would adopt the technology, but I can't justify the price premium just to have a faster load time.

 

Can't wait to o/c this baby when the replacement board arrives early next week, it should be an eye opener!

Hey Dave, great minds think alike no?

 

I hear ya on the 16 gigs ram.  If FSX used more than 4 gigs I would go with more, but as I only use FSX, a few ancillary apps like AS2012, Google Earth, and a web browser, I think 8 gigs is more than enough.  

 

If you think RAM prices are going to go up, it makes perfect sense to spring for the extra gigs.  I remember the volatile prices in the early 2000s, I remember considering "flipping" ram modules like it was tech stock     I am only speaking for myself, everyone's situation is different and the extra RAM is certainly needed to keep up with the demands of more complex and resource hungry applications apart from FSX.

 

I am heartened to hear about that 1 TB SSDs are more affordable, but if it doesn't benefit FSX frame rate performance, I can't justify the price differential.  Down the line, maybe!  

[NGXfanatic 85]

Hello, just checking in on the build's progress.  I took delivery of all the parts around October 17th, finished the construction of the hardware on the 22nd, and completed the OS and FSX setup as per NickN's bible on the 27th.  Started overclock testing on the 28th, with a conservative 4.0/3.9 core/cache baseline, and at this very moment I'm running the AIDA max temp stress test on a 4.5/3.9 core/cache.   Keeping my fingers crossed that I can remain stable at 4.5, but I have found I'm 100% stable at 4.4ghz, so I am satisfied with the o/c results.

I Loaded up a favorite 777 flight scenario, holding at the LAM VOR near EGLL in partly cloudy weather, and saw mid to high 20's FPS.   With the old sim, the same scenario showed low to mid 10's, so that is quite a jump in performance to say the least!   Another non scientific test,  at runway 9R at EGLL with 100% AI and clear skies, showed a jump from the 930 I7/GTX 480 score of 9.5fps, to 15.3 fps with the 4770k/GTX 780, a 60% improvement.   Needless to say, the improvement in frames performance was well worth the investment for me, and I'm glad I chose to go with the 780 vs the 770, as I love flying with heavy weather and 100% AI.  I have a feeling I won't have to drop sliders or reduce AI density with this new rig, just as I hoped for.  I may even upgrade from 512 px clouds to 1024 px.   I am giddy thinking about all the possibilities that have opened up because of the added frames.

I still have some more o/c work to do, but hope to be back in the 777 on a long haul from RJAA to WSSS next week to break in my new toy!  Despite wanting to go with SB earlier, I'm so happy I have the newest intel chip under the hood, as FSX can never have enough CPU power and in hindsight it would have been unwise to spend all this time and money upgrading to a 3 year old chip like the SB.

[ant_1984 20]

Fantastic results.

 

Enjoy the new toy!!

[NGXfanatic 85]

I sure will!   I'm glad I changed my mind and chose to go with a clean install instead of an inplace transfer.  You get what you pay for, and also what you put into it, and I think just dropping the hard drives with the old OS and FSX installs was asking for trouble with such a drastic hardware change like this.

 

I appreciate your help Anthony.   I may be back here asking about the overclock results and temps.  Knock on wood, looks like I'm going to be stable with 4.5!!!!!!

[Boomer 1,619]

 

 

I'm glad I changed my mind and chose to go with a clean install instead of an inplace transfer.

 

In a perfect world, sure; in my case it takes well over a entire day to update and reinstall all of my OS, controllers, FSX stuff and other games etc.

 

Clean install is my last resort. ;-)

[ant_1984 20]

In the scheme of things a day is nothing. Well worth a fresh install compared to the potential headaches if you dont.