Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

martin-w

Duke B60 V2 Greaser?

Recommended Posts

Not that I'm a simmer that aims for a greasers all the time, but...

 

Is such a thing possible in V2?

 

The reason I ask, is that even with the touchdown bump effect right down at 10%, it doesn't seem to make much difference to the bump sound on touchdown.

 

Even with a super gentle greaser touchdown, I still get quite a loud thud.

 

Doesn't matter how gentle I land.

 

This, in the video below should be feasible shouldn't it, no thud at all...

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf1OIY8HTnA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Hi Martin, I've definitely had some greaser landings (with the landing bump set to 50%) where I saw no bump;  however I can't remember off the top off my head whether or not the touchdown sound was any quieter.   So maybe the visual 'bump' is dynamic for the landing, but the landing 'sound' in not?

 

Not sure, and not at my FS PC at the moment to test it.   Sure Rob can confirm for us though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have AccuFeel installed, might be an idea to disable sopme of the effects, as they can clash...

 

A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So maybe the visual 'bump' is dynamic for the landing, but the landing 'sound' in not?

 

 

Yes, that's it exactly Dave.

 

I too have made some definite greaser's. Landing is smooth and gentle, but still the thump. 

 

I would have thought it would be feasible to code the landing thump so that below a given vertical speed, and with all parameters required for a greaser present, the sound was absent.

 

Absolutely love V2, I've put aside the PMDG T7 and the majestic Q400 in favour of the duke, it's that good. So I'm very reluctant to find fault. In fact it's not a "fault" more of an observation.

 

Have to say though, it does diminish realism just a tad, when a greaser sounds like a heavier landing.

If you have AccuFeel installed, might be an idea to disable sopme of the effects, as they can clash...

 

A

 

I don't have AccuFeel Andrew, but thanks anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah I understand Martin.  

 

The sound.cfg in the Duke 2.0, for Touchdown looks like this :-

 

[center_TOUCHDOWN]
filename=RASDuke_tire1, RASDuke_tire3,
flags=0
viewpoint=1
panning=0
minimum_volume=9500
maximum_volume=10000
 
[left_TOUCHDOWN]
filename=RASDuke_tire1, RASDuke_tire2, RASDuke_tire3
flags=0
viewpoint=1
panning=-8000
minimum_volume=9500
maximum_volume=10000
 
[right_TOUCHDOWN]
filename=RASDuke_tire1, RASDuke_tire2, RASDuke_tire3
flags=0
viewpoint=1
panning=8000
minimum_volume=9500
maximum_volume=10000
 
.......thus there is very little dynamic range between 9500 and 10000 and this is probably why most touchdowns are sounding the same.     You could try widening those values but I don't see any 'rate' values that would correspond to the min and max values  - so I'm not sure any tweaks would have an affect.
 
Perhaps Rob can take a look at this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting.

 

I'll wait and see what Rob says before I mess about.

 

Thanks Dave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting.

 

I'll wait and see what Rob says before I mess about.

 

Thanks Dave.

 

PLEASE don't change those volumes!! They were very carefully set. (A little knowledge can be fatal...). I can assure you that a quiet, non thumping greaser can be achieved. The dynamic range of many FSX sounds like this is such that almost all the range from very quiet to loud is NOT between zero and 1000 but between around 9200 and 10000..  But in addtion FSX exaggerates even that range in practice. We are not sloppy about these things!! Every sound and sound effect is very carefully tuned. The sounds are calibrated so that a greaser goes to the lower range. The animation thump is different from earlier versions. Not only is it adjustable but it should also react to the descent rate. If your adjustments to this and any other effect do not appear to be saved, then please look at the detailed section towards the end of the flying guide regarding file permissions, running as administrater and FSX /windows registry errors.

 

Nothwithstanding the above, if you are in any twin, getting a total greaser is extremely hard. It relies on a tiny descent rate just as the tyres contact, but also a continuingly tiny descent rate as the weight is transfered through the struts. Any video (or FSX itself) will exaggerate even the smoothest landing from a thump point of view, because the camera is locked, whereas your eyes adjust cleverly to minor vibrations. That is why filming a bumpy roller coaster ride on a camera without steady-shot technology will result in a horrible, unclear vibrational mess whereas the human eye/brain can filter out the shakes and vibrations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough Rob, and yes good point about cameras tending to be fixed in 'landing videos' and the illusion that gives.   I'm very happy with the touchdown sounds, and I like a definitive 'whack' when touching down.

 

The RealAir SF260 is the best ever aircraft for the touchdown sound IMHO, with the RealAir Legacy a close 2nd place. :cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 If your adjustments to this and any other effect do not appear to be saved, then please look at the detailed section towards the end of the flying guide regarding file permissions, running as administrater and FSX /windows registry errors.

 

 

 

Thanks Rob.

 

Well, no matter how I try, it's still quiet a loud thump.

 

Am running as Admin, always do.

 

All other settings are saved.

 

It's not that the slider doesn't function, just that a zero thump as in the video above is not possible. Still relatively loud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Rob.

 

Well, no matter how I try, it's still quiet a loud thump.

 

Am running as Admin, always do.

 

All other settings are saved.

 

It's not that the slider doesn't function, just that a zero thump as in the video above is not possible. Still relatively loud.

 

Hi Martin,

 

How are your "environment" sounds set in FSX control/sounds? There are two sounds going on here. One is the thump and squeel as the tyres hit the tarmac, the other is the rolling sound of the wheels and associated shakes and rattles. Both of these can be turned down by pulling the environmental sound slider to the left. Please note that this slider also controls the volume of the general wind, but not the special effects air stream sound.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll investigate tomorrow.

But please don''t see this as any kind of criticism Rob. I'm absolutely loving what you've achieved.

 

Edit: All sounds are actually lower than you state in the manual. 50, you suggest 67.

 

I wouldn't want to go lower, and quieten down the wind, tyre squeal shakes and rattles. They are perfect at the moment. It's just the thump as I touch down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll investigate tomorrow.

 

But please don''t see this as any kind of criticism Rob. I'm absolutely loving what you've achieved.

 

Edit: All sounds are actually lower than you state in the manual. 50, you suggest 67.

 

I wouldn't want to go lower, and quieten down the wind, tyre squeal shakes and rattles. They are perfect at the moment. It's just the thump as I touch down.

 

No worries....just trying to help you get the balance right. Sound balancing is a bit tricky in FSX because you have custom sounds, which do not have slider controls, engine sounds where you do, then environment sliders which balance both with the engines and the custom sounds. It is a bit fiddly, but eventually it is possible to balance things by getting the sound sliders acceptable then setting the overall volume of your speakers. So for example you could have the sliders at below 50 but of course if your speakers are very high you are still going to hear quite loud overall effects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I set the gear thump to off yesterday night, and still the thump was there. I believe the same is occurring with the gear retraction clunk.

 

 To be honest Rob, I suspect that the settings for just the two effects above are not saving.

 

Off out now, so will investigate on my return.

 

UAC is off, FSX set to run as admin in the compatibility tab, and always right click and run as admin. In addition, my AV is set to exclude everything relating to FSX.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would you want to achieve a "Greaser" anyway?

 

These types of landings tend to use excessive amounts of runway when excessive amounts are not available. As a pilot you want to be aiming to land positively exactly where you want and exactly when you want. "Greasers" are rarely compatible with those aims and are not what professional pilots strive to achieve .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would you want to achieve a "Greaser" anyway?

 

 

 

I don't, and I can, what I can't achieve is a greaser with the landing thump sound effect not present. Everyone else can. This tells me I have an issue.

 

In fact I had a rather heated debate the other week on this very subject, where I pointed out that a greaser in an airliner was bad practice. Someone who claimed to be a real world airliner pilot disagreed. No idea if he really was a pilot or not.

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/421374-flaring-becomes-a-mision/page-4

 

So you are preaching to the converted.

 

To clarify, it's the sound effect I am referring to. The fact that everyone else can achieve a landing with the thump sound effect not present and I can't, tells me that I have an issue. In this case my settings aren't being saved.

 

Hope that's clear now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an update, the gear retraction and extension clunk slider doesn't seem to do much for me, and neither does the touchdown thump slider in terms of the volume of the sound effect.  

 

But is the sound effect  designed to be adjustable via the slider? I may be misunderstanding here. From Rob's quote below it seems the animation is but what about the sound effect? seems a greaser merely goes to the lower range with no adjustment via the slider possible.

 

Every sound and sound effect is very carefully tuned. The sounds are calibrated so that a greaser goes to the lower range.

 

I'm not bothered though. At proper landing weights it's pretty much an acceptable volume for a standard landing. Although not akin to the zero clunk in the video I posted.

 

Who cares, great add-on all the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad you are converted :biggrin:

The person you were debating with may have been a professional pilot....just not a very good one. A quick glance at air accident reports will confirm the presence of such individuals who are thankfully in the minority.

All the best in your quest concerning the sound effect which unfortunately I can't help with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A quick glance at air accident reports will confirm the presence of such individuals who are thankfully in the minority.

 

 

 

Yep, I'm with you there.

 

 

:smile:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites