It seems the conventional wisdom has moved towards using the internal frame limiter typically set at 30 while using Inspector's 1/2 refresh vsync setting for maximum smoothness and freedom from blurriness, the frame rate impact of which can be mitigated by setting the FFTF value somewhere lower than default .33.  If there is one adage that most will agree on, it's one size does not necessary fit all, aka YMMV, with regard to specific setup recommendations.

 

Thanks to martin-w's reporting that he has had good success using a different approach, I would have to concur fully the conventional wisdom appears empirically flawed, at least for some users myself included.

 

I've been using Upper_Framerate_Limit=0 for many moons now, and have tried the conventional setup as described above, using either the external or internal frame lock at 30.  The total performance penalty is substantial when you use the internal limiter, and the argument comes that using the external one leads to poor texture update rates.  I  can say w/o equivocation that the best of all comes w/ UFL=0 and Vsync set to ON, which for my screen is 60Hz.  Using a hexacore processor w/ AffinityMask=4092 w/ HT enabled, or with HT disabled and AM=62, I have fabulous texture update rates and pick up huge gains on the high end of course since no limiter is being used.  But the key is--there is absolutely no problem w/ either smoothness nor blurry textures nor delayed texture update rate in any way.   In other words, I see no downside.  While I don't believe there is much performance bonus in the worst of scenarios over using the external limiter set at 30, there is no penalty either.  I did have a little issue w/ texture spikes when I turned vsync to ON (not at 1/2 sync) that went away completely by setting vsync to Adaptive tearing in Inspector. 

 

A plus is that if GSYNC appeals to you there is no reason using this configuration that you should be able to stay above 30 in all situations, though depending on your hardware you will need to dial back a little hear or there--emphasis on little.

 

If you are still struggling here and there w/ iffy performance and following the conventional wisdom give this approach a try and see what you think.  Intuitively, putting a brake on an engine you are trying to get the out of is counterintuitive, and can only be argued for if there are enhancements in smoothness or texture update rate.  I'm not seeing this at all--I have fabulous smoothness, IQ, texture update rate & frame rate using no limiter & vsync on, and frames are in the 30-160 range 99% of the time.  

Are you usually flying in windowed or full screen mode?

Full screen

Great that it works for you.

 

If you haven't enabeled PCIe3.0 on your MOBO it's a good ide to do that now with that setup. It will give you quite a bit higher FPS in a few scenarios compared to PCIe2.0 when you don't lock at 30. Basically, if you limit at 30 and use BP=0, PCIe2.0 or 3.0 doesn't matter. Othervise it does. I'll  hopefully be posting a tread about it shortly.

 

Out of interest, what LOD setting do you use?

Oh, and do you use 4092 with HT on??? Sure you don't mean 4082 or something else?

SAAB340, on 28 Oct 2013 - 5:48 PM, said:

Oh, and do you use 4092 with HT on??? Sure you don't mean 4082 or something else?

4092 gets the cycling FPS but I still don't understand why: 111111111100. Doesn't this get Core0 handling everything non-FSX, Core1 for main thread, others for texture loading? Why the dipping frame rate again?

 

I have been using 62 non HT as I remain a little lost on how to get max texture loaders operating w/ HT enabled.

4092 gets the cycling FPS but I still don't understand why: 111111111100. Doesn't this get Core0 handling everything non-FSX, Core1 for main thread, others for texture loading? Why the dipping frame rate again?

 

I have been using 62 non HT as I remain a little lost on how to get max texture loaders operating w/ HT enabled.

Because the main thread shares physical core#1 with a textureloader. Take away 8 and you'll be fine. So 4086 should do better.

 

Edit: 4084 it should be.

Simple maths is all of a sudden quite tricky having just finished a night duty at maximum duty hours on the minute. Can't wait for the 'new improved' european FlightTimeLimitations... NOT

Great that it works for you.

 

If you haven't enabeled PCIe3.0 on your MOBO it's a good ide to do that now with that setup. It will give you quite a bit higher FPS in a few scenarios compared to PCIe2.0 when you don't lock at 30. Basically, if you limit at 30 and use BP=0, PCIe2.0 or 3.0 doesn't matter. Othervise it does. I'll hopefully be posting a tread about it shortly.

 

Out of interest, what LOD setting do you use?

 

Oh, and do you use 4092 with HT on??? Sure you don't mean 4082 or something else?

It's not necessary to use any registry hacks to enable PCIe 3.0 on my board.

 

I take it it's still required on some boards then is it?

Noel, I don't really think we are getting different results because we have different systems. As long as we run modern day systems with a decent Intel CPU and a decent NVIDIA GPU, our results for this tweak and smoothness in FSX should be pretty much the same. I've had multiple systems over the years, and what I found to have a negative impact on smoothness were the newer type of videocards. With my older GT 320 I would always get fairly low FPS (mid 20's) but it was smooth and there was little to no lag. When I decided it was time for an upgrade, I bought a GTX 560Ti. The performance improvement was substantial, but it also had a negative impact on smoothness. I figured this is not a suitable card for FSX, so I sold it after a few weeks and bought a GTX 580, and got exactly the same results with regard to smoothness. Unfortunately, I had made a bad decision once more because the GTX 6xx were going to be released shortly, so I returned the card, got my money back and bought a GTX 670 for the same price when it came out. And guess what, again exactly the same results for smoothness. High FPS, but a little choppy when flying demanding planes like PMDG. In default planes the smoothness was - and still is - quite OK but not perfect. Just to make sure it was the videocard, I took it out and fired up FSX with HD 3000 graphics. Loaded the default Cessna on some deserted airport in the desert and limited FPS to 30, and guess what. Smooth as silk, no lag whatsoever, it was like running VSync 1/2.

 

Secondly, I think it also depends on how we perceive smoothness, what we define as smoothness, and what we look at to judge smoothness. Assuming you are running the correct settings for VSync 1/2 (see end of this post) we should get the exact same results (and believe me, we do), but it all depends on the way we judge smoothness. If you pan around in the cockpit then unlimited frames is by far the best you can get, it's butterly smooth. But have you ever tried firing up a PMDG plane (NGX / 777) at a fairly FPS friendly area where you are getting around 40-50 FPS? Do that, pan around and you should see it's a 100% smooth, right? Now start taxiing, and try to taxi in circles as quickly as you can while simultaneously looking outside towards the scenery (trees, airport buildings), now it's suddenly a lot more choppy and laggy isn't it? That's exactly the reason why I'm running VSync 1/2. If you run the proper settings and meet one simple condition then there is absolutely NOTHING that is going to beat the smoothness it will create.

This is all you gotta do:

1. In NI go to the MS Flight Simulator X profile.
2. Set Vertical Sync so that it creates a refresh rate of 30 FPS. So for 60 Hz monitors, set it to 1/2 refresh rate and for 120 Hz monitors set it to 1/4 refresh rate.
3. Set VSync Mode to Standard, and NOT Adaptive.
4. Set the framerate limiter to Off and OPTIONALLY use the internal frame rate limiter to 30 inside FSX.
5. You MUST be able to maintain a minimum of 30 FPS in 95% of the situations or this tweak is utterly pointless, as it will have no positive effect below that framerate.

The reason I referred to the UFL at optional is because sometimes the best thing is not to use a framerate limiter at all. We all know it lowers your FPS, and even by setting FFTF to a lower value we won't always get high enough FPS. High FPS is one condition for this tweak to work. If you cannot maintain a constant 30 FPS, then this tweak will not work and it will do nothing good to smoothness at all. Setting the UFL=0 will give us more headroom, it decreases the chance of FPS dropping below 30, which is obviously something we don't want here. 
But when should we use and FPS limiter and when not? I find that in demanding planes and FPS limiter is not required at all. In the PMDG 737 NGX, 777 and Aerosoft Airbus X VSync 1/2 runs butterly smooth without the internal framerate limiter, which gives me the advantage that I can maintain 30 FPS much better. When using outside views (locked spot etc.) however, it will not be so smooth at all. But I wouldn't care about that, as we are in the cockpit 99.9% of the time. The same applies for default planes, things won't be smooth without an FPS limiter. This is probably because FPS wants to run higher than 30 which will create jumps. Only in the less demanding planes we need to set UFL=30, but that's no problem at all because it's easy to maintain 30 FPS in these planes.

If you have applied all settings correctly and if you can maintain a constant 30 FPS, then this tweak will work for you. But again, it depends on how you perceive smoothness. If you do that by panning around, then VSync 1/2 might not be all that suitable. But if you judge smoothness by actually looking out of the window when flying/taxiing, then this is the perfect tweak for you.

I also see you are running VSync to On Noel, meaning that your videocard is trying to sync the game with your monitors refresh rate. This setting is utterly pointless if you can't constantly maintain monitors refresh rate. Just as you need 30 FPS for VSync 1/2 you need 60 FPS (or your monitors refresh rate) for VSync On, otherwise it will do nothing. 

Personally, I would never fly without it, that's how much I like it.

 

 

I've been using Upper_Framerate_Limit=0 for many moons now, and have tried the conventional setup as described above, using either the external or internal frame lock at 30.  The total performance penalty is substantial when you use the internal limiter, and the argument comes that using the external one leads to poor texture update rates.  I  can say w/o equivocation that the best of all comes w/ UFL=0 and Vsync set to ON, which for my screen is 60Hz.  Using a hexacore processor w/ AffinityMask=4092 w/ HT enabled, or with HT disabled and AM=62, I have fabulous texture update rates and pick up huge gains on the high end of course since no limiter is being used.  But the key is--there is absolutely no problem w/ either smoothness nor blurry textures nor delayed texture update rate in any way.   In other words, I see no downside.  While I don't believe there is much performance bonus in the worst of scenarios over using the external limiter set at 30, there is no penalty either.  I did have a little issue w/ texture spikes when I turned vsync to ON (not at 1/2 sync) that went away completely by setting vsync to Adaptive tearing in Inspector. 

 

I get better performance with UFL=0 and locked at 30fps with NI.  Whenever I tried to use the conventional logic of UFL=30, I get stutters and a fps drop of at least 5-8fps.  Never understood why.

 

Will try setting vsync to adaptive tearing.  Maybe this will take care of the screen tearing issue for which I have to run aero after starting FSX using a batch file.

 

Using windowed mode.  Any suggestions will be appreciated

 

Ted

 

 

I take it it's still required on some boards then is it?

 

It's not so much the board but the SB-E as far as I know...

 

 

4. Set the framerate limiter to Off and OPTIONALLY use the internal frame rate limiter to 30 inside FSX.

 

This is the thrust of the point I'm making Arjen--setting internal limiter is NOT a good idea, though it has seeped into the conventional wisdom on the basis that superior texture loading results.  Not here!  It's a 20%+ penalty any way you slice it!

 

 

I get better performance with UFL=0 and locked at 30fps with NI.  

 

Hi Teddy,

 

This has been my default setting as well.  1/2 refresh vsync with external lock w/ NI works well too.  The key is to avoid in the internal frame lock.

I use the internal at 26 FPS, smooth as Thai silk!

I use the internal at 26 FPS, smooth as Thai silk!

Hi Teddy,

 

This has been my default setting as well. 1/2 refresh vsync with external lock w/ NI works well too. The key is to avoid in the internal frame lock.

No, eont use the external limiter, it will make things less smooth! Just use no limiter at all.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

 

I get better performance with UFL=0 and locked at 30fps with NI. Whenever I tried to use the conventional logic of UFL=30, I get stutters and a fps drop of at least 5-8fps. Never understood why.

 

Will try setting vsync to adaptive tearing. Maybe this will take care of the screen tearing issue for which I have to run aero after starting FSX using a batch file.

 

Using windowed mode. Any suggestions will be appreciated

 

Ted

Don't use adaptive, it doesn't work for FSX. Just use standard mode + monitors refresh rate and no FPS limiter.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Don't use adaptive, it doesn't work for FSX.

 

Using it here--no spikes, no tearing noted.

But the key is--there is absolutely no problem w/ either smoothness nor blurry textures nor delayed texture update rate in any way. In other words, I see no downside.

What LOD seetting do you use?