Does anyone know of a video tutorial that covers sids with specific climbs? I would like to do departures on the jfk1 departure with the breezy point or canarsie climb for example and I am trying to figure out the best way to setup my preflight to set  climb gradients and to be able to fly designated radials. 

 

Does anyone know of a video tutorial that covers sids with specific climbs? I would like to do departures on the jfk1 departure with the breezy point or canarsie climb for example and I am trying to figure out the best way to setup my preflight to set  climb gradients and to be able to fly designated radials. 

What specific questions do you have?

 

Climb gradients are usually taken care of by the airline's engineering department and are covered in whatever take-off performance program they would use.

 

Are you able to select the departure in the FMC? If so, do the departure in LNAV/VNAV and run the MCP alt up as desired (there are differing schools on this).

 

 

Does anyone know of a video tutorial that covers sids with specific climbs?

 

You're probably not going to find a good video tutorial of someone flying the JFK or EWR SIDs because they're by far the most incorrectly flown SIDs in the sim world (along with some of the LAX SIDs).  I might be able to record something when I get home today for you, but until then, here's some text:

 

First!  SID stands for Standard Instrument Departure, so no more of this "SID Departure" business. :wink:

 

Okay, now that my inner grammarian is satisfied, the JFK1:

 

The JFK one is a hybrid-nav departure.  This means that you have a set of instructions to fly on your own as the pilot, and at some point have vectors.

 

So, what are we looking at on that mess of a chart?  The first mistake simmers make is rushing and assuming: that SID has two pages and there's normally extra info on page 2.  Guess how many are normally read (and probably more accurately: "looked at").  Looking first at the BREEZY POINT climb, you can see that it's pretty straightforward on the pictorial chart (page 1), and that the narrative (page 2) states:

 

BREEZY POINT CLIMB: Climbing left turn direct CRI VOR/DME, make turn east of CRI R-039, then via CRI-223 to RNGRR/CRI 27 DME.  Cross CRI 3 DME or JFK R-253 at or above 2500, maintain 5000, thence...

 

...via vectors to assigned route/fix. Expect clearance to filed altitude/flight level ten minutes after departure.*

 

In order to manage this departure, you:

Take off and turn left in the climb, directly towards CanaRsIe.  This must be done before crossing CRI R-039.  Depart CRI on the 223 radial towards RNGRR, crossing CRI 3 DME at or above (AoA) 2500, maintain 5000.

 

In order to set this up in the automation:

Create your route on the RTE pages and EXECute it.  After adding the departure runway on the DEP/ARR page (no need to select the JFK1 departure on that page because it won't have the various CLIMBs), go to your legs page and enter CRI, CRI223/3, and RNGRR.

 

After RNGRR, there will be a discontinuity - LEAVE IT THERE.  Discontinuities aren't bad.  In fact, this one will remind you that there are vectors at or before RNGRR to your first flight plan fix.

 

Enter 250/2500A as a restriction at CRI223/3 and set your MCP altitude to 5000.

 

From there, go to your FIX page and enter CRI.  Below, add a radial entry of 039.  This is a reference line for you to ensure you make the turn prior to that.  When you take off, use the leader line (the curved line that appears in front of your aircraft symbol on the ND) to ensure you don't bust that 039 Radial line.

 

Prior to departure, be sure the CDU is displaying the LEGS page for easy access.  Take off, and once you're pointed toward CRI, line select CRI to the top of the LEGS page, EXECute it, ensure LNAV and VNAV are selected on the MCP and engage the AP.  LNAV and VNAV will manage the rest up to RNGRR.  The controller will likely vector you prior to RNGRR (and if he or she does not, LNAV will automatically drop to HDG HOLD to continue flying in that direction, as is appropriate, though you should verify with the controller prior to RNGRR if able).  Once given direct to your flight plan fix, line select that fix to the top of the LEGS page and continue on your merry way.

 

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Now, looking at the Canarsie Climb:

 

CANARSIE CLIMB: Climbing left turn direct CRI VOR/DME, make turn east of CRI R-039, then via CRI-176. Cross CRI 2 DME or JFK R-253 at or above 2500, maintain 5000, thence...

 

...via vectors to assigned route/fix. Expect clearance to filed altitude/flight level ten minutes after departure.*

 

In order to manage this departure, you:

Take off and turn left in the climb, directly towards CanaRsIe. This must be done before crossing CRI R-039. Depart CRI on the 176 radial indefinitely, crossing CRI 2 DME at or above (AoA) 2500, maintain 5000.

 

In order to set this up in the automation:

Create your route on the RTE pages and EXECute it. After adding the departure runway on the DEP/ARR page (no need to select the JFK1 departure on that page because it won't have the various CLIMBs), go to your legs page and enter CRI, CRI176/2 and CRI176/50 (you won't end up going all the way out there, but it'll give you a long line to follow until the controller vectors you).

 

After CRI176/50, there will be a discontinuity - LEAVE IT THERE.

 

Enter 250/2500A as a restriction at CRI176/2 and set your MCP altitude to 5000.

 

From there, go to your FIX page and enter CRI. Below, add a radial entry of 039. This is a reference line for you to ensure you make the turn prior to that. When you take off, use the leader line (the curved line that appears in front of your aircraft symbol on the ND) to ensure you don't bust that 039 Radial line.  After that, enter JFK, with a radial entry below it of 253 (this is just to supplement the CRI176/2 restriction - it's not required).

 

Prior to departure, be sure the CDU is displaying the LEGS page for easy access. Take off, and once you're pointed toward CRI, line select CRI to the top of the LEGS page, EXECute it, ensure LNAV and VNAV are selected on the MCP and engage the AP. LNAV and VNAV will manage the rest up to CRI176/50.  Once given direct to your flight plan fix, line select that fix to the top of the LEGS page and continue on your merry way.

 

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Hope that helps.  Like I said, I'll probably do a video tutorial of it when I get home.

 

*If a controller leaves the "maintain [altitude], expect [cruise altitude] [so many] minutes after departure," out of your clearance, look at the narrative on the chart.  It's probably there, which is why the controller left it out of the clearance: part of the reason SIDs/STARs exist is to cut down on radio use.

Thank you for the outline. I was able to follow the steps exactly and learned a whole lot about the plane and sid in the process! I noticed in the sid there is a climb rate requirement, for example if taking off from jfk on rwy 31L on the breezy point climb  it says 343' per nm to 2500'. The same runway for canarsie climb is 440' per nm to 2500'.  In order to climb at specific rates should I be setting v/s or is the climb rate covered by meeting the at or above 2500' alt requirement? Thank you so much for your guidance. It has been immensely helpful with understanding how to setup for a sid with a climb. 

 

Chris

That would not be a specific rate to climb, rather it would be a minimum rate to climb. You can extrapolate the rate - you divide your speed by 60, and multiple the per mile rate by this number, for example a rate of 300ft per nm, if you flew 120, that would be 600fpm, if you flew 180, that would be 900fpm.

That would not be a specific rate to climb, rather it would be a minimum rate to climb. You can extrapolate the rate - you divide your speed by 60, and multiple the per mile rate by this number, for example a rate of 300ft per nm, if you flew 120, that would be 600fpm, if you flew 180, that would be 900fpm.

Oh ok. If its only a minimum that is a lot easier to manage than trying to target a set number. 

 

 

Thank you so much for your guidance. It has been immensely helpful with understanding how to setup for a sid with a climb. 

 

You're welcome!  Glad it helped!  Never got around to making a video today, but I'll have one up eventually and I'll post it in this thread when I have it out.