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martin-w

Asus Annoyance!

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It seems Asus have annoyed a few purchasers.

 

I don't know about you, but my preferred method of overclocking is via the UEFI. However, the Asus 4 way optimisation, auto overclocking feature is useful for many. Great for giving you an idea as to what your system can do, and also as a starting point prior to fine tuning. Also useful for those not too experienced with overclocking.

 

Well, the Asus ROG boards, are supplied with 4 way optimisation within Ai Suite 3, but there's a problem. The 4 way optimisation that comes with the ROG boards is nothing like the utility within the mainstream boards. In fact the overclocking function is primitive. Rather than running a full stress test, just as a manual overclocker would, the ROG version comes with just three presets, 4.2, 4.4 and 4.6.

 

Asus say the thinking behind this, is that anyone buying a ROG board will know how to overclock, or be willing to learn. Well, that's fair enough, but you can imagine why some purchasers would be irritated to find that a feature the board was advertised to have, that they may have wished to experiment with, has been totally dumbed down, and nothing like they expected.

 

In my opinion, Asus should use their common sense, and rename the utility supplied with the ROG boards, it's not 4 way optimisation at all, it's three way optimisation, and primitive presets for the overclock.

 

 

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?36169-Maximus-VI-Formula-4-Way-Optimization-Error/page9

 

 

https://teksyndicate.com/forum/inboxexe/remember-video-asus-4-way-optimization/152816

 

 

http://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/MAXIMUS_VI_FORMULA

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I have an ASUS P8z77 deluxe and I used the AI Suite II just as you described to quickly find an overclock to then fine tune with the bios. I thought it was great at first. The problem that I, and others, had is that AI suite II kept interfering with the manual bios overclocks even though the AI Suite overclock componenets had been turned off. I would find settings changing on there own or locked to where I couldn't change them. Google searches indicated the culprit was AI Suite II. After uninstalling AI Suite II all the bios problems went away, Getting rid of AI Suite wasn't a matter of just uninstalling. If left remnants behind and getting rid of them was like trying to removing a virus.  This may be the real reason that Asus doesn't have the same overclocking functions on the ROG boards. Just speculation on my part of course.

 

Ted


3770k@4.5 ghz, Noctua C12P CPU air cooler, Asus Z77, 2 x 4gb DDR3 Corsair 2200 mhz cl 9, EVGA 1080ti, Sony 55" 900E TV 3840 x 2160, Windows 7-64, FSX, P3dv3, P3dv4

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That's weird Ted.

 

In theory, there's no way the auto overclock software should mess with your overclock unless you tell it to do so.

 

Do you have a link to that issue?

 

I have the P8Z77-V Deluxe for my 3770K. It's called Auto System level Up for my board. No problems like that for me.

 

I would guess, any major issues like that would have been patched by Asus by now.

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In theory, there's no way the auto overclock software should mess with your overclock unless you tell it to do so

In theory yes, but that was not what I experienced. This was over a year ago but my memory is that it didn't change my overclock, it just seemed to prevent some changes I made in the bios from enabling. I don't have any links. I just remember googling the porblems I was having and found that others with the same issues resolved them by removing AI Suite II. I removed it and the issues went away. I remember that in additon to running the windows uninstaller, I had to download a separate removal tool from the Asus ROG site, and then I had to go into the registry and remove some more items.

 

Its entirely possible that, I may have just corrupted it when using it to overclock in windows as I did have some BSODs when I pushed it too far.  As you said, Asus may have updated it since then also. It has some nice features but I had a frustrating enough experience with it that it won't be going back in on the next rebuild. I also did not like the fact that it was always running in the background. With a bios overclock, this is not the case. I believe that you can do an auto-overclock from the bios also, but I never used it.

 

The problem with overclocking, or even building a computer for that matter, is that you can not call Asus and talk to anyone who knows anything. All you can do is read opinions on the internet and try something. If it works you go with it.

 

Ted


3770k@4.5 ghz, Noctua C12P CPU air cooler, Asus Z77, 2 x 4gb DDR3 Corsair 2200 mhz cl 9, EVGA 1080ti, Sony 55" 900E TV 3840 x 2160, Windows 7-64, FSX, P3dv3, P3dv4

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The latest version is Ai Suite 3 now, rather than the older version you had issue with.

 

I've not seen any mention of it on the internet, so it must have been addressed.

 

Yep, it does run in the background, but I don't find it to have a very big foot print. In addition, I use the rather excellent Fan Xpert 2. I have fan curves plotted for all of my fans.

 

I do understand why you would be put off though, having had issues with the older version.

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I remember another issue I had with it was the CPU temp that AI Suite II was indicating was not the CPU temperature but the socket temperature and it read lower than all the temperatures from the 3rd party CPU temp utilities. I did not feel comfortable having an auto overclock based on the socket temperature. AI Suite also caused strange data readings in some of my third party overclocking utltilites. When I removed AI Suite all those issues went away. You can set up a fan curve in the bios also. Be careful when you set up this fan curve because it responds to the CPU socket temp, which was about 15C lower than the CPU temperatures you see in Real temp or core temp. At least that was the case for me. I had to set up my curve so the CPU was at full speed at 50C to compensate. I called ASUS on this and they just said that is the way it is. This may be changed in AI Suite III. I did not know that AI Suite III was available for the Z77 boards. If I didn't have all these issues with it I would have kept it installed. To me it was another case of a great idea with a bad execution. As I recall, Jim, who moderates the CTD forum, did not have a good experience with AI Suite III on his Z87 and removed it also. I don't know if he had the same issues.  I am curious what overclock you are getting and at what CPU voltage on your 3770k with the ASUS auto-overclock. Mine is running at 4.5 ghz and 1.2 volts.

Ted


3770k@4.5 ghz, Noctua C12P CPU air cooler, Asus Z77, 2 x 4gb DDR3 Corsair 2200 mhz cl 9, EVGA 1080ti, Sony 55" 900E TV 3840 x 2160, Windows 7-64, FSX, P3dv3, P3dv4

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Hi Ted.

 

Yes that's correct, PC Probe doesn't measure core temperature, I recall it measures Tcase. So it will always read lower than core temperature.

 

Regarding the overclocking software, Asus are aware of the difference, and take that into consideration regarding the CPU's thermal limits.

 

 

I had to set up my curve so the CPU was at full speed at 50C to compensate

 

 

Well yes, it's just a case of being aware of what the Tcase temperature relates to in terms of core temp. It's not really an issue. No different to being aware of the difference between Centigrade and Fahrenheit, metric and imperial, or any other standard.

 

 

I am curious what overclock you are getting and at what CPU voltage on your 3770k with the ASUS auto-overclock. Mine is running at 4.5 ghz and 1.2 volts.

 

 

Well, my current overclock is manual, through the UEFI, with no reference to the Asus software, that's how I usually overclock. When I did experiment with the Asus auto overclocking software it worked okay. I recall it did overclock further than I was comfortable with though, it took it right up the 4.7 GHz, too high for my CPU. Not an issue though, because my version of the software can be limited to whatever overclock I feel comfortable with. It's just a case of hitting the stop button when the desired overclock is reached.

 

I recall that the 4 way optimisation software for Z87  boards is different to mine, I don't believe you can stop it at the desired overclock.

 

I remember at the time, thinking the voltage was a little high, however, my manual overclocking endeavours have demonstrated to me that my CPU does indeed need high voltage, so the Asus software got it right.

 

 

Mine is running at 4.5 ghz and 1.2 volts.

 

 

You're very lucky then, that's very good indeed! Overclocking manually through the UEFI, to 4.5 my CPU needs  0.030 offset, which gives me 1.304 under load. Any less than that and it's not stable long term.

 

I'm afraid I didn't do too well in the silicone lottery with this guy. Needs delidding really.

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The problem with my AI Suite version is while it was measuring Tcase it is calling it CPU temp. By default the Asus fan curve was set to a max rpm at 70C which corresponds to core temp of 85C. A little too hot in my opinion for people just jumping in and turning on the auto-overclock. Hopefully they have all this corrected with the latest versions.

 

Ted


3770k@4.5 ghz, Noctua C12P CPU air cooler, Asus Z77, 2 x 4gb DDR3 Corsair 2200 mhz cl 9, EVGA 1080ti, Sony 55" 900E TV 3840 x 2160, Windows 7-64, FSX, P3dv3, P3dv4

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Yes, it does call it CPU temp, other utilities do as well that measure Tcase. In fact if you look in your UEFI at the CPU temperature reading there, you will find it's not core temp it's Tcase and labelled CPU temp.

 

By default the Asus fan curve was set to a max rpm at 70C which corresponds to core temp of 85C.

 

 

 

Yes, that's too high.

 

100% fan speed equated to 50C for mine. For the case fans that is. My CPU cooler is the older version of the D14, so not PWM, runs at full RPM all the time, but still quiet.

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I only clock in bios not installed AI Suite youse standalone Turbo Evo Light instead for clocking in windows, mobos R4BE and M6E the same version of Turbo Evo Light

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Do not ever install AI Suite ever...it is difficult to remove and is pointless. OC in bios ALWAYS!!!


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Do not ever install AI Suite ever...it is difficult to remove and is pointless. OC in bios ALWAYS!!!

Agree, this one is easy to uninstall have it only for Extreme OC you now some CPUs you boot in win with lower vcore

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Do not ever install AI Suite ever...it is difficult to remove and is pointless. OC in bios ALWAYS!!!

 

 

Well, we can only go by our own experience, and I have to say my experience of Ai Suite is diametrically opposed to yours. So for that reason, I would say it's wrong of you to advise that course of action in such general and definitive terms.

 

Yes, as I said above my current overclock is through the UEFI, and that's usually my preference too. However, as I said, I have used the Asus overclocking software and found it to work fine, no issues at all.

 

In addition, there are other useful features within Ai Suite to consider. Fan Xpert 2 is excellent in my opinion. Yes, as Ted said, you can set fan profiles in the UEFI, but it's very nice to have the facility to adjust fan curves with just a mouse click or two, and nice to be able to drag them to where you like and see a visual representation of that change. Easier than having to shut down and reboot within the UEFI, and then make minor changes that way.

 

Then we have PC Probe of course, that does a great job of monitoring temperatures and alerting you when they reach the pre-set limit you have defined. Not forgetting voltage monitoring of course, another useful feature.

 

I can only think you guys that are rather scathing of the Asus software, have only had experience of bugged versions, rather than the latest stable version I have installed.

 

As for uninstalling Ai Suite, I've never had an issue, because I've never had any issues with it and needed to uninstall. If I did have to, I would use the Asus Ai Suite uninstall utility.

 

As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and I have Ai Suite installed on my PC with zero issues at all. And if I were to build a new rig, I would install it without any hesitation.

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I may have had a botched install of my AI Suite II. When I built my computer I went right to the Asus site and got the latest drivers and utilities. I read in NickN's guide that you should always use the disk that comes with your motherboard to install your drivers and then go to the Asus site to get the latest updates. The reason given is that there is some code on the disk that needs to be installed that is not available in the updates on the site. I did not know this when I built my computer and did not do this. I will on the next OS reinstall.

 

I just checked the Asus site and the latest AI Suite for my mother board is still the one I had installed which is AI Suite II from 2012.

 

I have read that the Asus level-up or auto-overclock sets the CPU voltages too high. I did try a small overclock with it and that is what I found also, so I did not try to go any higher with the auto-overclock. It is my understanding that you are auto-overclocking with the newer AI Suite III Martin. What is your overclock and what CPU voltages are you seeing in CPUz?

 

I am hesitant to recommend it based on the older version I had because I found I found that the CPU fan speed curve was set at too high of a temperture and that the CPU voltages were set too high. My concern is that someone who did not know anything about computers would just hit max overclock and do some damage to their computers. Again I hope the newer version is improved.

 

I am not recommending against using it. I am writing all this so someone who is considering using it will not do so blindly and will check to make sure they are not having the issues that I experienced.

 

Ted

 

I was advised against installing it when I bult my computer but I did it anyway because I wanted the utilities that you described above. I've already told the story of my experience with it. I hope the new version is better as it seems to be for you Martin. 


3770k@4.5 ghz, Noctua C12P CPU air cooler, Asus Z77, 2 x 4gb DDR3 Corsair 2200 mhz cl 9, EVGA 1080ti, Sony 55" 900E TV 3840 x 2160, Windows 7-64, FSX, P3dv3, P3dv4

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I may have had a botched install of my AI Suite II. When I built my computer I went right to the Asus site and got the latest drivers and utilities. I read in NickN's guide that you should always use the disk that comes with your motherboard to install your drivers and then go to the Asus site to get the latest updates. The reason given is that there is some code on the disk that needs to be installed that is not available in the updates on the site. I did not know this when I built my computer and did not do this. I will on the next OS reinstall.

To be honest Ted, I think that applies to chip set drivers, not utilities like Ai Suite. There's no issue with installing the latest from the Asus site. To be honest, even in regard to chip set drivers it's not usually the case that installing from the CD first is required. It's quite rare I would say, especially these days.

 

 

I just checked the Asus site and the latest AI Suite for my mother board is still the one I had installed which is AI Suite II from 2012.

 

 

 

Yes, that's probably the case, your motherboard hardware is associated with the version you have.

 

 

I have read that the Asus level-up or auto-overclock sets the CPU voltages too high. I did try a small overclock with it and that is what I found also, so I did not try to go any higher with the auto-overclock. It is my understanding that you are auto-overclocking with the newer AI Suite III Martin. What is your overclock and what CPU voltages are you seeing in CPUz?

 

 

 

 

No Ted, as I said previously, my current overclock is via the UEFI. However in the past I did experiment with auto overclocking via the Asus software, and didn't have any issues. I can't remember what the voltage was it set to be honest, but it did overclock too far for my taste, so I ran it again and stopped it at 4.5 rather than allowing it to go to the max. I recall the voltage was on the high side, but then that's precisely what my chip needs, as I have determined with my own overclocking in the UEFI and testing.

 

When I've backed up my system courtesy of Acronis, I'll run it again and see what it generates this time. I'm not going to do it before I've done that, as in the past I did have an experience were a failed overclock [uEFI overclocking] corrupted windows. I recall I was experimenting with different frequencies per core at the time. 

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