Malaysian Flight 370

[january 19]

 

 

RULE #7
Appearances can be deceiving. There may be more happening than meets the eye.

 

Rule 7 works for me!

january

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

 

 

Thank you for understanding what I was trying to get across, sometimes I am not sure even I get my point What is even more amazing is they weren't looking for the Titanic when they found it in 85. They were searching for 2 US subs in the middle of the cold war. So it was a random find even after all that time.

 

Paul, that is correct. Bob Ballard, who was good friends of Lehman's (they served in the Navy together), was given Navy black funding to develop JASON and JASON Jr. with light weight fiber optic tethering to a Deep Submergence Vehicle; in this case "ALVIN" from WHOI. They were purposed to swim out and enter through small spaces, with JASON Jr. basically able to enter via an opening the size of a porthole. That was their intended purpose for the Navy and those subs.

 

Bob Ballard solicited "volunteer" participation from industry, including my company at the time (ORE). I remember having Bob sitting across the table from me asking for various pieces of equipment and instruments; one of the most important at the time being an Ultra Short Baseline Acoustic Navigation System (which would track the position of the Deep Tow package on ARGO that he wanted from us.

 

 

So, with that in mind, we could eliminate about 25 pages of this thread right off the bat...

 

Now THAT is funny! :Big Grin:

[KevinAu 441]

I thought the story went that Ballard was given about two weeks time at the end of the expedition to check on the two subs, to look for the Titanic. Both because it was what Ballard wanted to do and to provide a cover for the purpose of the expedition. So it wasn't exactly a random find.

[tf51d 284]

 

 

Thank you for understanding what I was trying to get across, sometimes I am not sure even I get my point What is even more amazing is they weren't looking for the Titanic when they found it in 85. They were searching for 2 US subs in the middle of the cold war. So it was a random find even after all that time.

 

That's not entirely correct. Ballard's goal always was to search for Titanic. He wanted the US Navy to finance the search using the robot sub Argo. The USN though was not interested in financing a search for Titantic, but did want him to search for the 2 nuclear subs USS Scorpion and the USS Thresher, So they made a deal with him that they would finance the Titanic search only after he searched and found the subs. Which he did. They imploded, and he subsequently traced the debris on the ocean floor it back to the wreckage. Now funded by the USN he then proceeded using the same technique  for the search and subsequent discovery of Titanic.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

I thought the story went that Ballard was given about two weeks time at the end of the expedition to check on the two subs, to look for the Titanic. Both because it was what Ballard wanted to do and to provide a cover for the purpose of the expedition. So it wasn't exactly a random find.

 

Define "random" - I didn't state a timeline. Horse or cart doesn't matter. The result was the same. And the reasons for it remain the same too; develop new technologies. Stroboscopic science, acoustic science, swim out unmanned submersibles, fiber-optic tethering at great depth and pressure, deep tow platforms, winch technology, USBL and LBL acoustic navigation, and the list goes on. In the years leading up to 1985 and since, technologies were developed and have been enhanced since and are being deployed in the MH370 situation and others before it. 

That's not entirely correct. Ballard's goal always was to search for Titanic. He wanted the US Navy to finance the search using the robot sub Argo. The USN though was not interested in financing a search for Titantic, but did want him to search for the 2 nuclear subs USS Scorpion and the USS Thresher, So they made a deal with him that they would finance the Titanic search only after he searched and found the subs. Which he did. They imploded, and he subsequently traced the debris on the ocean floor it back to the wreckage. Now funded by the USN he then proceeded using the same technique  for the search and subsequent discovery of Titanic.

 

Actually ARGO is the deep tow camera, strobe and sonar platform:

 

 

Jason and Jason Jr. were "fly out" ROV's using Alvin as their "mother ship"...

 

 

That is a picture of Alvin back then. She looks considerably different now. A small personal aside, I was asked in 1984 or there-abouts to be an Alvin pilot. I could not think of anything less I would have wanted to do. EDIT: and back then, she was known as a DSV (deep submergence vehicle) and today she is known as an HOV (human occupied vehicle). My little editorial? Cars, Bicycles, Aircraft, Ocean Liners and my roll away bed are all HOV's. Good grief.

 

And one little correction or clarification... The Titanic was "discovered" in 1985. The expedition to map the debris field and image the ship and surroundings was done in the summer of 1986.

[tf51d 284]

 

 

That is a picture of Alvin back then. She looks considerably different now. A small personal aside, I was asked in 1984 or there-abouts to be an Alvin pilot. I could not think of anything less I would have wanted to do.

 

Wow that's cool, if you took it, you probably would have been the first (With Ballard) to see Titanic up close

[psolk 3,040]

That is a picture of Alvin back then. She looks considerably different now. A small personal aside, I was asked in 1984 or there-abouts to be an Alvin pilot. I could not think of anything less I would have wanted to do.

 

Funny, I was 11 in 85 and this was still James Bond technology to me at the time!!!

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Wow that's cool, if you took it, you probably would have been the first (With Ballard) to see Titanic up close

 

Well, I developed a serious allergy to Alvin... I did not want to get within 15 feet of its entry hatch... Bad voodoo could result.

 

I didn't intend to hijack the topic guys....

[Dillon 2,197]

I didn't intend to hijack the topic guys....

 

With no plane found we weren't talking about too much anyway. By all means continue we might find another theory to MH370.

[psolk 3,040]

With no plane found we weren't talking about too much anyway. By all means continue we might find another theory to MH370.

You think it was an iceberg? . Sorry couldn't resist...

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

With no plane found we weren't talking about too much anyway. By all means continue we might find another theory to MH370.

 

Having been involved in a number of Search and Recovery operations in my carreer (most of which everyone here would recognize), I don't speculate. Journalism 101 asks the simple questions; who, what, where, when, why, and how. The answer to those are facts. The only fact that we have today is that MK370 is missing. There are no other facts that are terribly germane, including the obfuscation or confusion of the Malaysian Government.

[Guest]

Got this image from a friend ... Is CNN really this bad?

 

 

Rob

[ViperPilot 81]

Having been involved in a number of Search and Recovery operations in my carreer (most of which everyone here would recognize), I don't speculate. Journalism 101 asks the simple questions; who, what, where, when, why, and how. The answer to those are facts. The only fact that we have today is that MK370 is missing. There are no other facts that are terribly germane, including the obfuscation or confusion of the Malaysian Government.

 

From the way the Media has behaved during this entire ordeal, a good number of their Investigative Reporting staff seems to have forgotten the tenets of Journalism 101; they have brought 'sensationalizing the story' to a new level.

 

EDIT: Rob... yes, it's gotten that bad. MH 370 is CNN's "Brass Ring"; equivalent to Bernie, Peter and John in the Al-Rashid reporting the first night of Desert Storm. CNN has invested too much time and too many resources on MH370 not to ride this out as long as they can.

 

Problem is... What CNN did in Baghdad back in '91 was Journalism. What CNN is doing now with MH370 is Tabloid Reporting.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

 

 

Got this image from a friend ... Is CNN really this bad?

 

Yes, they are really that bad. They would rather report that kind of drivel than report knowledgeably on the subject. They have hyperventilated on this story and would rather do that than give the same level of coverage to the other, arguably, more important stories of our time (with no disrespect intended to those whose family members are missing).

From the way the Media has behaved during this entire ordeal, a good number of their Investigative Reporting staff seems to have forgotten the tenets of Journalism 101; they have brought 'sensationalizing the story' to a new level.

 

They certainly have, and CNN, who I once had a modicum of respect for, has been the worst.

[january 19]

Re the CNN pic headline- "Boeing 777 will struggle to maintain altitude once fuel tanks are empty".

Well this is the space age! Everybody knows that a rocket continues on its trajectory and keeps going long after empty fuel tanks. Unlikely it could reach orbital altitude if it still had fuel. Why shouldn't an airplane keep flying the same way? 

Besides, fuel economy is mandated by our governments isn't it? its likely EPA regs that cause airplanes to "struggle"

january