Thanks for all the advice! Much appreciated. 

 

Power: the list I posted was the final result of a similar topic on a Dutch forum. I decided to first get the basics right before I would bother you with it all. The guys who gave me advice over there clearly had no idea what P3D was and what it requires but I knew that and educated them a little. And so I ended up with what I posted in the OP. But well, it's clear 550 won't cut it so I will probably go for the 750 version of the same unit, even though I think 650 should be enough too. But better safe than sorry.

 

CPU: after your posts I am concerned about the OC'ing possibilities of the current 4770K… I don't feel like delidding it so I am thinking more and more about waiting for that refresh anyway. But apart from a few problems that will give me, I also don't know if I can wait that long LOL. Might as well be August before it's here! I suppose the 4670K has the same problems when it comes to this? The price difference between the two CPU's is big but I simply wanted 'the best' this time so that's why I went for the 4770K. I read very different things about all this though: some say the 4770 will reach 4.5 quit easily with that Noctua cooler I want to get. Guess it's a matter of luck too.

 

BTW:

SSD: I am thinking about going for two 250 GB SSD's after all… Somehow it feels better to put P3D on a totally dedicated drive, even though these are SSD's. Or is that utter nonsense?

 

And I understand W8.1 is fine for P3D? Or even better…? Only FTD1949 commented on this. Apparently the controller problems are over since the last patch? 

If it was MY build I'd change the following:

- More powerful PSU. I'd go for an 800W to make sure I never put a strain on it.

- I'd get an ASUS GPU as well. I don't like to mix too many brands inside my builds. One less place to go for updated drivers, firmware etc.

- I'd get a water cooler. I use a Corsair H100 with a Corsair 800D case. Very happy with it, and it doesn't make much noise, and doesn't take up much space inside the case.

- I'd opt for a bigger case as well. So much easier to build inside a large case, than a small one.

 

Good luck!

4670K has the exact same problems as the 4770K when it comes to overclocking. When you want to stick with air cooling then you shouldn't go any higher than 1.2V or at most 1.25V in VCore. To find a 4770K that can reach 4.5 GHz on less than 1.25V you must be extremely lucky these days. I would say that no more than 1 out of 10 chips can reach this. The recent CPUs usually hit limits around 4.2 to 4.3 GHz on reasonable VCores (which means reasonable temps, because with Haswell VCore determines temps). Going for water cooling doesn't make a lot of sense because all stock cooling solutions (including Corsair H100 and the likes) are only slightly better than the Noctua (which is an excellent air cooler). The only way to really lower temps with Haswell is delidding (this makes a 20-30 degrees Celcius difference all else equal). I had someone who is very experienced delid my 4770K. Not a problem at all. However, 4.2 or 4.3 should also be fine for Prepar3d as it is going to be more and more GPU focussed. Just want to make sure that you are not disappointed when you cannot achieve 4.5 GHz. And with this I mean a really stable overclock. There are so many people around that just use some presets in the BIOS to overclock their CPUs and then spam forums asking why they get CTDs in FSX which are often times only related to a bad overclock. Overclocking Haswell is a lot more complicated than overclocking Sandy or Ivy...

I'd say no, no complete upgrade at this time. Your 2500k is still one of the most "durable" CPU's ever made and can compete with the 4770k when OC'd. What was the rule of thumb here? 2500k@5Ghz=4670k@4,2Ghz? Its just as easy to get your 2500k to 5Ghz as it is getting at 4670k to 4,2-4,4Ghz. i7 4770k gives you HT and some speed improvements, yes, but still not worth it. 

 

Stick with your 2500k til next generation.

 

MB-wise; never spend more money than absolutly necessary on MB's. As long as its an ok overclocker and gives you the number of USBs and other ports, thats what you should aim for. Never overspend on MB.

 

GFX; upgrade your 580 to 780, not Ti. Yeah, Ti is great, but a good 780(like EVGA Classy can be clocked to Ti performance)

 

In case you still want to upfrade your CPU; 

PS: Aim for 850W. 1000 is overkill and will be for years unless you aim for SLI

 

Cooler; Noctua NH-D14 is absolutly brilliant, and performs just as good as the closed liquid system at a lower db. I'd stick with that.

 

RAM, as cheap as possible as long as it is 1866Mhz+. Theres absolutly no performance gain getting cool-looking coolers(pun)

 

Case, SSD, HDD; DVD(really?); whatever floats your boat:-)

Ok… I will have a look at the Asus GPU when I go for the Asus motherboard. And I will also investigate how well you can OC the 780. But at the same time I think that you might also be able to OC the 780Ti…?

 

Sticking with the 2500K… than I would also have to stick with my current mobo and I might as well stick with everything else and only upgrade the GPU. But I gave that a try some time ago and I didn't like it. A new mobo will also give some improvements (PCIe 3.0 for instance) as will new memory (lower CL) and probably a few other things. And as carlit0777 says: 4.3 would be great too. 

 

I rather have a good motherboard that over clocks easily and have one that can barely manage it.

 

Concerning the case: I like smaller and I will have it assembled by the shop so the small size doesn't bother me. Besides, this specific case has some good solutions to make up for it's smaller size. And btw it's not THAT small.

 

RAM 1866 after all, ok! So that DOES make a difference? Would 2400 be even better? The thing is: most of you are trying to save me some money and that's great, but what I have selected now is already within my budget with quite a margin and although I of course don't want to throw away money, I also want to buy a PC that's how I want it and like it. Up to now, when I bought my previous PC's, I would ALWAYS give in in the end and replace some top components for cheaper ones and EVERYTIME I felt sorry I did so within no time. So this time I rather spend too much and be happy than save money and be sorry.

 

Anyway, you are giving me a lot to think about: great! Thanks!

 

 

MB-wise; never spend more money than absolutly necessary on MB's. As long as its an ok overclocker and gives you the number of USBs and other ports, thats what you should aim for. Never overspend on MB.

That is true, when you are going for a modest overclock. When pushing Haswell to the limit the choice of MB makes a huge difference.

 

Other than that I fully agree with Tom. I would only upgrade the GPU and keep your current system. Will not make a huge performance difference overall...

That is true, when you are going for a modest overclock. When pushing Haswell to the limit the choice of MB makes a huge difference.

 

When I wrote that, I considered 4,5 a modest OC. If he was a hardcore overclocker, he wouldt even consider Noctua air- or close liquidcoolers:-) However, I fully agree, pushing the limits with full liquid cooling or even nitro, the MB would actually be the one piece I would spend the most money on...

Ok… I will have a look at the Asus GPU when I go for the Asus motherboard. And I will also investigate how well you can OC the 780. But at the same time I think that you might also be able to OC the 780Ti…?

 

 

 

Yes, you can of course clock the Ti to insane levels, but considering what it cost for good overclockable Ti(EVGA 780Ti Classified comes to mind), I think the $/fps is too high...if money is no problem, then go for it, get a Ti and clock it through the roof:-) No matter what you buy, there is always something better either on the market or coming soon, so you have to draw the line somewhere. I drew it on a 780 Classified, which is now OC'd to Ti levels.

 

 

 

Sticking with the 2500K… than I would also have to stick with my current mobo and I might as well stick with everything else and only upgrade the GPU. But I gave that a try some time ago and I didn't like it. A new mobo will also give some improvements (PCIe 3.0 for instance) as will new memory (lower CL) and probably a few other things. And as carlit0777 says: 4.3 would be great too. 

 

 

PCIe 3.0...I don't think we're even close reaching the limits on 2.0 unless your in the quad-SLI business, please correct if I'm wrong. Nice to have, but your new MB is upgraded at least once more before 3.0 is necessary.

 

Lower memory timings is a good thing yes, but improve FPS in FSX/P3D? Maybe 0,5-1 frame...if any. Still not worth it. Save your money for Z99 generation and DDR4.

 

 

 

Concerning the case: I like smaller and I will have it assembled by the shop so the small size doesn't bother me. Besides, this specific case has some good solutions to make up for it's smaller size. And btw it's not THAT small.

 

 

Remember, you buy the K version and an excellent cooler to overclock, in small cases, temperature WILL be an issue. Its not bad in any way, its just not the best you can buy:-) 330 is out btw. Don't know how much norwegian you can read, but the charts is easily understandable I thinkHW.no

 

 

 

RAM 1866 after all, ok! So that DOES make a difference? Would 2400 be even better? The thing is: most of you are trying to save me some money and that's great, but what I have selected now is already within my budget with quite a margin and although I of course don't want to throw away money, I also want to buy a PC that's how I want it and like it. Up to now, when I bought my previous PC's, I would ALWAYS give in in the end and replace some top components for cheaper ones and EVERYTIME I felt sorry I did so within no time. So this time I rather spend too much and be happy than save money and be sorry.

 

Anyway, you are giving me a lot to think about: great! Thanks!

 

Some say yes, others no, but I've been tol 2433+ gives better performance in FSX. No idea what it does in P3d, but if the price difference is low I see no reason not getting as fast RAM as you can.

 

Spending too much on comps is never a good idea, the pricy computer you buy today will in pretty much all cases be just as outdated in 2 years as a more sensible priced computer will.

 

Consider this,

• buy one $5000 today and upgrade it in say 3 years or;
• buy one $1750 today and upgrade it every year?

My guess is the $1750 PC bought in 2016 will outperform the $5000 bought in 2014 by a mile. Rince repeat. I know, buying a computer ever year is would be a hassle, but you get the point I hope:-)

 

My suggestion in short;

 

Upgrade your GFX to clockable 780

 

If you insist on upgrading your entire rig, I'd go;

i5 4670k

Noctua NH-D14

MSI mPower MB

1866+ RAM

780

SSD(128Gb)+SSD(512Gb)(no HDD)

Carbide 500 or better

850W PSU(or Gold certified 750W)

Thanks Tom, you've got some very valid points! Back to the drawing board for me…  ^_^

 

 

My suggestion in short;



Upgrade your GFX to clockable 780



If you insist on upgrading your entire rig, I'd go;

i5 4670k

Noctua NH-D14

MSI mPower MB

1866+ RAM

780

SSD(128Gb)+SSD(512Gb)(no HDD)

Carbide 500 or better

850W PSU(or Gold certified 750W)

Agree. Except that I would go for the 4770K if you also plan to use the new system for anything else than simming. Then hyperthreading will give you an advantage (e.g. for video editing). And the price difference is not huge...

Agree. Except that I would go for the 4770K if you also plan to use the new system for anything else than simming. Then hyperthreading will give you an advantage (e.g. for video editing). And the price difference is not huge...

 

Well, I do sometimes make music (Cakewalk Sonar, lots of samples in Kontakt, etc.) so I think that would indeed benefit from the difference. However, for P3D and OC'ing it is better to disable HT and I don't think I would like to turn HT on and off every time depending on what I would like to do.

....However, for P3D and OC'ing it is better to disable HT and I don't think I would like to turn HT on and off every time depending on what I would like to do.

Hi Jeroen,

are you sure about this? By the way, with the AM you can also switch off HT.

Spirit

Thanks for all the advice! Much appreciated. 

 

Power: the list I posted was the final result of a similar topic on a Dutch forum. I decided to first get the basics right before I would bother you with it all. The guys who gave me advice over there clearly had no idea what P3D was and what it requires but I knew that and educated them a little. And so I ended up with what I posted in the OP. But well, it's clear 550 won't cut it so I will probably go for the 750 version of the same unit, even though I think 650 should be enough too. But better safe than sorry.

 

CPU: after your posts I am concerned about the OC'ing possibilities of the current 4770K… I don't feel like delidding it so I am thinking more and more about waiting for that refresh anyway. But apart from a few problems that will give me, I also don't know if I can wait that long LOL. Might as well be August before it's here! I suppose the 4670K has the same problems when it comes to this? The price difference between the two CPU's is big but I simply wanted 'the best' this time so that's why I went for the 4770K. I read very different things about all this though: some say the 4770 will reach 4.5 quit easily with that Noctua cooler I want to get. Guess it's a matter of luck too.

 

BTW:

SSD: I am thinking about going for two 250 GB SSD's after all… Somehow it feels better to put P3D on a totally dedicated drive, even though these are SSD's. Or is that utter nonsense?

 

And I understand W8.1 is fine for P3D? Or even better…? Only FTD1949 commented on this. Apparently the controller problems are over since the last patch? 

 

I went through all this last summer when I configured my new computer (which was built for me). It was difficult for me, but I learned a bunch in the process,

 

One bit of advice that I'm passing on is: get a power supply that can handle a second GPU in SLI. Doing so doesn't add much at all to the overall cost, but it gives you the SLI option for a future upgrade.

 

My 4770K was only overclocked to 4.2GHz (but it came with a 4 year guarantee). Stability is more important to me than squeezing out a few more decimal GHz.  People tend to focus way too much on CPU speed, and then end up with a system that is less stable. The fact is that for the same CPU, 4.5GHz is only 7% faster than 4.2GHz ... in reality, this is the difference between running P3D at 30 FPS and at 32 FPS.

 

I have the Noctura NH-D14 and love it! It is very quiet and it does a good job at keeping my CPU cool. The one downside is that you will not be able to use high memory sticks (the kind with higher cooling bars), as they won't fit.

 

The motherboard in your specs does not have WiFi. This may not be an issue for you . . . I just wanted to make sure that you were aware of this. I needed WiFi, so I went with the ASUS Z87-Deluxe.

 

I went with a single large SSD, a Samsung 512GB 840 Pro (along with a 1TB Western Digital Black). I have my OS, P3D and X-Plane 10 all on the SSD and I still have about 300GB free.

 

My OS is Win 8.1. I considered going with Win 7, but now I'm glad that I went with the newer OS. For one thing, DX 11.2 will not work fully with Win 7 (this will likely also be true with DX12).

 

Good luck with all this,  

I like this topic, as I'm in the same process of setting up a new rig.

My concern is how  Windows 8.1 will run with all the applications I use during flight. P3D, EFB, IVAO, FS2Crew, Opus, Saitek drivers, all divided over 3 screens?

 

New for me is that DX11.2 will not fully work with Windows 7. Could be the reason to go for Windows 8 (although I still prefer the good 'old' Windows7 GUI.

 

Hope to get some usefull info from you guys.

 

Greetings (also from Tulip-country)

I'm not gonna start a HT war here, but to me, HT is nothing more than a wellmade Intel salespitch. For most people, i5 wil be more than enough for all jobs, but I always keep hearing, "if you work alot with videos, HT would be good for you". Yes, it does improve performance of encoding a bit, but by how much? Now, I'm grabbing numbers out of thin air here, but I only want to make a point so bear with me:-) From what I've been reading and hearing online, instead of an 1 hour encoding job, you get to do the same job in 50-55 min with HT enabled instead, so are those 10 min worth it? You do it enough times, perhaps it is, but if you are professional, an i7 4770k wouldn't be sufficent anyway, there are better HW for those kind of operations/software. Another important point about HT, is that it increases the CPU temperature while enabled, which again will reduce your overclocking capabilities. Stick with i5, its both cheaper and better for yor needs...I think.