p3d 2.2 stuttering and single digit fps on i-4670K & GTX760 4GB

[neilydone 9]

Hello all,

 

I've been following all the updates on P3D and have P3D v2.2 installed with Orbx Global and a couple of other third party addons (Justflight's Traffic X and Aerosoft's Mega Airport Brussels X) imported using the EMT. I am also using REX

 

I seem to get widely fluctuating fps (and stutters) and inconsistency: one day it will be in the forties or fifties and today for example, the sim was in the single digits when sitting on the active runway at EGCC. I also experience crackling sounds which seem to be in sync with the stuttering and I have tried to reduce the quality of hardware acceleration in Windows 7.

 

Within P3D, I've tried a number of the configurations regarding cloud shadows off/on and other suggestions (e.g. the cloud layer fix) but today when I began the weather theme was Fair Weather.

 

can anyone suggest any other things to try? Tessellation is on and fps is set to unlimited with VSync on.

 

Specs:

- Win 7 64bit

- Intel I-4670K overclocked to 4.4Ghz (temps at idle 30c and under load 60c)

- MSI GTX 760 4GB

- 8 GB RAM

- P3D 2.2 stored on a HDD with O/S on an SSD

 

Is there anything else that people on here can suggest or point me to, that might be the culprit? I've also tried to remove addons in logical order to see what the problem is, with no substantial difference.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Mickeyj 35]

Hi Neil,

 

first make sure P3D2 is running well out of a fresh install. If that is the case you can start cranking up the sliders. If you happy with the outcome, good.

 

Secondly if you install 3rd party add ons directly or via EMT you should be aware that you might run into performance issues as these add ons most likely not P3D2 compatible. Even if there is a triple installer doesnt necessarily mean the product is compatible.

As of 3rd party FSX sceneries they might have some old code FS9 code. FSX has no probs with that but P3D2 will have and it will have performance issues

 

My advice is use only add ons that are certified to be compatible with P3D2 or use them on your own risk. You might also want to contact the 3rd party dev for help.

 

Third you need to know and understand to balance your system. You have a beefy system but you can bring it to its knees pretty quick. Balancing means to balance the CPU and GPU load. If you have lots of AI and lots of complex 3rd party (non P3D2 compatible) scenery combined with a complex (non P3D2 compatible) aircraft and high autogen AND you want to have all these shadow gizmos and tesselation on high and ultra then your system will raise the white flag!

[whitav8 98]

Just so you have a place to start - with very modest settings - single monitor, default aircraft like Bell206, LOD=Ultra but few shadows and simple water, no traffic, you should get 65 FPS (or so) at default KORD RWY 9.

[peppy197 165]

I notice almost no stuttering in windows 8 but enough in win7.64

[Robert McDonald 167]

I thought I was the only one.  I got -extremely- disturbed when I hit single digits with triple monitors on triple pcs in multi-player mode with FSDreamteam KLAX.  No lie, as I flew into the LA basin from San Francisco, the frames hit 6 (SIX) frames per second.  UNACCEPTABLE.

 

In addition, the triple-displays break sync when I make a severe pitch up or down - the displays don't match evenly on the horizon...not great!

 

I removed all traces of  P3D and all the hang ons.  I will reconsider when the next update of P3D comes out.  I'm STUNNED that it is indeed possible to realize the horrid performance of the baby-brother sim (FSX).  Granted, it MAY LIKELY be a third party hang-on (I had Orbx Global, Vector 1.1, NorCal and PNW loaded, but the orbx should have been no more than GLOBAL with vector in LA. May be a problem with FSDreamteam's upgraded airport.  My point is I believe P3D 'as shipped' is GREAT, and very pretty. There are a couple refinements I'd love - especially like it if MULTI-CHANNEL returned to the party (it was there in 1.x, then removed in 2.x).  Guys like me with multi-pcs and multi-monitors that's a deal breaker not having robust network support for our displays and glass cockpit.

 

As someone suggested, the culprit quite likely is one of the hang-ons.  I'm sure it will shake out a revision or three down the road, and I'll likely revisit with a fresh clean all-P3D-certified install with all-P3D-approved hang ons. 

 

For now... I'm flying an alternate platform.  And I'm kicking myself having bought Orbx Vector 1.1, NorCal, Rex Texture Direct 4, iFly 737 NG for v 2.2, and some other stuff.  I had a lot invested in Flightbeam/FSDreamteam/LatinVFR payware airports from FSX days.  I could live without my PMDG... as I fly Sim-Avionics glass cockpit... but I can not and will never tolerate a constantly-stuttering slideshow from ANY sim platform.  For ANY reason.  Period.  Been there, got the DVD -and- the T-shirt.

[MikeT707 1,181]

Robert,

Did you have your Target Frame rate set to unlimited?  Reason I ask is since I installed P3D-compliant Orbx regions, I have seen stutters.  I did have my target frame rate set to unlimited, but I changed the setting to something close to the frame rate range that I was experiencing.  For instance, flying around Anchorage, with sliders far to the right I was getting around15-20 frames.  When I set a value of somewhere between 20 to 25, which is just above the 15-20 frame rate range that I was experiencing, my stutters dropped and the flight seemed relatively smooth.  Just thought I would share.

 

I sure hope things work out for you in whatever platform you are on.  I have seen some of your videos and it sure is an impressive system you have.

[Robert McDonald 167]

Robert,

Did you have your Target Frame rate set to unlimited?  Reason I ask is since I installed P3D-compliant Orbx regions, I have seen stutters.  I did have my target frame rate set to unlimited, but I changed the setting to something close to the frame rate range that I was experiencing.  For instance, flying around Anchorage, with sliders far to the right I was getting around15-20 frames.  When I set a value of somewhere between 20 to 25, which is just above the 15-20 frame rate range that I was experiencing, my stutters dropped and the flight seemed relatively smooth.  Just thought I would share.

 

I sure hope things work out for you in whatever platform you are on.  I have seen some of your videos and it sure is an impressive system you have.

 

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for the suggestion and the encouragement.  I never did try your suggestion-because I've already removed P3D.  I regard P3D as a very forward-looking platform, and I truly believe that it will become something really exceptional in the near future.  I applaud Lockheed's efforts, and encourage them to do four very important things:

 

1. Develop a "P3D v. 2.x CERTIFIED" logo for all hang-on / add-on software 'designed for P3D/1&2 or something a little like that.  In this way, prospective add-on purchasers could be assured that the product being offered met rigid performance standards set by LM, and was properly coded to release memory addresses as appropriate.  Since memory space in the 32-bit world is very much limited, such a program could only enhance flyability and reliability.  Presently a dev can 'represent' their product as 'P3D v. 2-capable' with no testing and no certification.  Problems, if any, lay on the doorstep of the end-user.  This hodge-podge approach is so 1980s.  In today's world, the overall reputation of a colossus like LM is at risk via poorly-coded aftermarket products not made nor warranted by LM.  Much as Microsoft has had success with "Built for Windows 7, WHQL-certified Drivers, etc", Lockheed could enjoy a methodology that would protect and enhance their product line.  Better for their business, especially when trying to appeal to larger corporate or government entities.

2. Develop SLI capability for those willing to invest in multiple GPU cards. (I am aware this is imminent)

3. MAKE P3D in 64-bits!  This is a huge one- and a game-changer.  Looking forward towards government/military training, it would be a huge boon to totally eliminate the threat of out-of-VAS-memory errors once and for all.  In turn, such a move would also force 3rd party developers to get real and build for today's modern systems. Sloppy code that has migrated from primitive FSX roots over to the P3D world likely would need to be refined and re-engineered to operate in 64-bits.  End-users would enjoy more reliable platform support, free of the worry of VAS overload.

4, Re-introduce "multi-channel" support back into P3D v. 2.2 and forward.  In other words, develop a robust, and extremely easy-to-set-up NETWORK support system for multiple monitors.  Allow and encourage 3, 4, 5, 6 or more monitors to be driven by 3, 4, 5, 6 or more PCs.  Those willing to invest in a high performance and fully-scalable sim platform would be REWARDED with greater performance, instead of stymied by the convoluted  "Multi-Player" system presently offered.  In plain language, P3D is a pretty girl, but she needs to have some enhancements beneath the skin to make all of her beauty easier to implement and control.

[WarpD 824]

1. Develop a "P3D v. 2.x CERTIFIED" logo.

Actually, this doesn't work for Windows that well. Not certain it's worth the effort because to be honest... the cost of being certified would exceed the sales value of the product in a niche market.

 

2. Develop SLI capability for those willing to invest in multiple GPU cards.

There are people already using SLI with Prepar3D 2.2.

 

3. MAKE P3D in 64-bits!

All of your conclusions as to what 64-bit will offer are incorrect. Sloppy code will be hidden by 64-bit, not reduced/eliminated. All of these addons that currently cause OOM need to be rewritten to behave in a 32-bit environment. It is the only legitimate approach. Until that happens... 64-bit will actually just make things worse.

 

4, Re-introduce "multi-channel" support.

Don't know what to say about this one... they removed it for a reason... their recommendation is to use Shared Cockpit to do the same thing. I have no idea how that's supposed to work.

[Robert McDonald 167]

Actually, this doesn't work for Windows that well. Not certain it's worth the effort because to be honest... the cost of being certified would exceed the sales value of the product in a niche market.

 

 

There are people already using SLI with Prepar3D 2.2.

 

All of your conclusions as to what 64-bit will offer are incorrect. Sloppy code will be hidden by 64-bit, not reduced/eliminated. All of these addons that currently cause OOM need to be rewritten to behave in a 32-bit environment. It is the only legitimate approach. Until that happens... 64-bit will actually just make things worse.

 

Don't know what to say about this one... they removed it for a reason... their recommendation is to use Shared Cockpit to do the same thing. I have no idea how that's supposed to work.

 

 

To make a 32-bit product 64-bit compatible, the underlying code would have to be re-written.  Now if someone is going to do a re-write and still do a poor job of programming - that's inexcusable, but the 'word' would get out... I can think of some add-ons that people have gone away from because of unreliable or unpredictable behavior, and I'm willing to bet you can think of one or two in the 32-bit realm that you've chosen to 'do without', yeah?  Sure, it'd be wonderful if they revamped their 32-bit stuff to work properly and remove the sloppy address-releasing... but still, if you hang ENOUGH on a 32-bit program, no matter how well it's written, you're going to eventually bump your head on the 4GB VAS hard-deck.

 

In 2014 - there just is no good reason to persist with 32-bits.  Laminar with all its faults and foibles, was wise to bite the bullet and make the BIG leap.  Still, their limited financial-resource pool and the distraction of the Uniloc lawsuit is stymieing XP reaching a parity level in eye candy with the competitors.  Lockheed has the huge resources to easily accomplish a port to 64-bits.  Someone just has to have the managerial courage to pronounce the Emperor deserves and in fact is BEGGING for new clothes.  

 

P3D in 64-bits would remove the last roadblock.  Most of the devs I have spoken to are in favor of 64-bits.  None of them relishes the amount of very hard work it would involve to migrate their 32-bit product line to 64.  Clearly, it's a BIG job - and as a programmer, no one wants to think about completely rebuilding a successful 32-bit product solely to transition to 64-bits.  Thus there is a lot of negative opinion in the 32-bit dev world clawing to remain in 32-bits.  If LM came with 64 bits, it would FORCE THE ISSUE.  In XP, many pilots refused to fly products that had not ported over to 64 bits.  So the market will drive the migration to 64-bitness - but Lockheed needs to code the platform over first.  Your position that 64-bit "hides" software flaws is valid, but denies the logic of giving pilots full unfettered access to their RAM investments of 16-, 32- or more GB and chain them forever to 4GB max Virtual Address Space (VAS).  It's like telling a guy with a V-8 engine that his engine computer can only run 4 of his 8 cylinders.  Sure, the car RUNS.  But it doesn't FLY.  Trying to maintain full backward-compatibility means a good platform is being held back from greatness. 

 

You may be right about the certification process I proposed.  LM would have to take a view that they wanted the aftermarket stuff to be top-drawer or not be marked as P3D-2.x compliant.  Where Microsoft went wrong was setting the price for certification.  Because flight simulation is a FAR SMALLER market (your argument), Lockheed would not NECESSARILY have to charge stunning amounts to put the P3D logo on a product.  Also price breaks could be given for major players with a known track record - think Orbx, FSDreamteam, REX, Active Sky, etc.  The big boys would get low or no-cost certification pricing.  I don't think it's the 300-lb gorilla issue that it was when certification to run on an OPERATING SYSTEM was at stake.  Microsoft had to price certification very high to keep the process manageable by their software compliance team.  The smallness of sim market argues for a substantially lower certification price point.

 

"Shared Cockpit" means "shared airplane" in Multiplayer mode in P3D.  It's a band-aid approach - and it does NOT function well across a gigabit network with all AV stuff off.  My videos of both XP and P3D clearly show a difference especially in pitch movement, where the horizon "breaks apart" in P3D 2.2 and remains aligned in the other platform.  Of course this is not an issue if you're trying to run everything including a bunch of monitors and the sim itself all of just ONE pc.  Been there, and honestly prefer multi-pc/mulit-monitor via network.  It's just not working well for me (yet) in P3D.

[WarpD 824]

I can convert 100% of my code from 32-bit to 64-bit with the switch of a compiler option. It's not that hard to do unless you're using hooks or cheats or assembler. I can't speak for anyone else's code however.

 

I can tell you, because I've been in software since the beginning (no, seriously)... if a developer's code chews up VAS in 32-bit... they are not going to change a thing when it goes 64-bit because they're banking on the odds you will not be able to tell.

 

I've been around programmers a long, long time... they're not going to make it better because it's 64-bit. They won't have to.

[Robert McDonald 167]

I can only say that the migration from 32-bit product to 64-bit product in XPlane was NOT instantaneous by simply flipping a switch in the code compiler for many of the common add-ons.  Not to say it couldn't happen as you suggest, just that it didn't in all cases.  There was way too much lag time for some of the add-ons to be released in 64-bits if it were nothing more difficult than a code compiler setting.

 

If what you suggest is indeed that simple, I cannot fathom the amount of resistance being put forth against 64-bits.  Honestly, why in the world would any person want to totally DISREGARD the vast amount of system ram that almost EVERY pilot now has under his/her hood by compelling them to remain in 32-bit 4GB VAS Max Headroom?

 

Even most happy-meal systems now come with 8GB.  And many others have 16 or 32.  Why toss that aside?  It means "NOTHING"?  I don't agree with that.  I can agree that 64 bits all by itself is no cure-all, and again, if you ask ONE computer to 'do it all' and then put enough plug-ins and add-ons on it-- you can bring even the most powerful of PCs to its knees.  We all saw that in FSX. Lockheed's P3D 2.2 out of the box looks and flies great.  The problems come when the add-ins are plugged in.  Yes, sloppy code is clearly a bad thing, you can't fix bad code.  Yes, 64-bits won't fix bad code.  But still, give the USER a break.  Those who PAID FOR a ton of system ram should have the OPTION to use it in their flight sim.  

 

Finally, can anyone honestly say they 'enjoy' tweaking settings just to make their flight sim look pretty without stumble-rendering?  I'll bet most sim pilots would much rather just FLY than switch (settings).

 

It's what drove me firmly away from FSX, and while P3D is drop-dead gorgeous, I have experienced horrendous frame rates (6 fps) in the LA basin approaching FSDreamteam KLAX in P3d v 2.2 with Orbx Global, Vector 1.1, NorCal and PNW on my setup.  As I've said before, likely suspect is ortho scenery - most probably in the KLAX airport from FSDreamteam conflicting with tiles in P3D.  I don't know for certain.  I do know it was enough to move me off P3D 2.2 at least for the short term.

[eminyilmaz 17]

Triple or more monitors option is out with P3dv2. You need Titan SLI or equivalent gpu power if you want stable performance with heavy addons and new eye-candies. I've managed to get decent performance with gtx 680 on a single monitor, however I don't have anything installed yet. I am afraid to see my fps dropping to single digits even on a single monitor when I install big birds and FSDT airports. Until I have enough capital to invest on newest gpus, I'll keep my p3d v1.4 installation as my main sim and use V2 for bush flying exclusively.

[Robert McDonald 167]

Triple or more monitors option is out with P3dv2. You need Titan SLI or equivalent gpu power if you want stable performance with heavy addons and new eye-candies. I've managed to get decent performance with gtx 680 on a single monitor, however I don't have anything installed yet. I am afraid to see my fps dropping to single digits even on a single monitor when I install big birds and FSDT airports. Until I have enough capital to invest on newest gpus, I'll keep my p3d v1.4 installation as my main sim and use V2 for bush flying exclusively.

 

Yup.  Some other platform... P3D 1.x or whatever works...

 

I'm satisfied with XP 'for now' - though I will re-visit P3D once the playing field gets leveled and hopefully LM adds more robust networking for 'scalability'.