New 64 bit Flight Sim and PMDG aircraft soon?

[Guest]

 

 

The whole article is worth rewading.

 

64bit benefits will also come from caching of data ... with more memory available less reads from slower SSDs and/or HDs  -- yes SSD are still slow relative to RAM access times and bandwidth - not going to see 50GB/sec sustain speeds on SSDs any time soon - and that's just DDR3 RAM, when quad channel DDR4 hits this year things will improve even more making 64bit even more attractive.

 

Several have mentioned "efficiency" ... but it's good to understand that "releasing resources" takes time ... it doesn't happen for free, cpu cycles are used.  So performance suffers from being "more efficient" with memory usage.  Removing the pressing need to keep releasing and re-allocating of resources (aka 32bit address space) will help performance ... so another benefit of 64bit.

 

Just like deleting a file/data from a hard drive, the OS doesn't actually remove the data, just flags the locations as now available (the data is actually still there).  The OS does this for performance reasons.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[voodoo101 21]

64 bit is only part of the benefits of a new simulator. Add to the fact of DX11 compatible from the start, not a DX9 flight sim with a part DX10 option, then created into a DX11 sim such as P3D, a sim created from scratch with DX11 benefits. Written to use all the cores available on the chip and written taking the advantages of high power graphics cards. All of these was not thought of with FSX. Maybe if Microsoft had kept with the series then a new version using all these would have emerged. Let's hope that either the addon makers embrace Xplane or another developer works with the addon makers to make a new flight sim.

[mrvoyager 0]

I'm not forgetting other flight simulators by the way, and there are many positives for each of them.  But the financial strength, ties to many different large airlines and military forces around the globe (a.k.a. the true market) and internal and external resources, well, I don't see how P3D can't grow into something that will blow all our hair back.

Good point, they have the resources and tons of connections but also could be kind of unpredictable since they are military, imagine them making an ultra amazing sim in the next few years and then suddenly deciding to block it from public use for some reason, policy/regulation or something like that, that would be really sad and a terrible loss for everyone. Hopefully they will keep p3d aimed for commercial use. 

There seems to be a misconception that 64bit will improve performance, this is not the case, if you are getting 25fps in 32 bit you will get 25 fps in 64 bit. What does happen is that the computer can access more than 4gb of ram, meaning products like Orbx can become ever more complicated and aircraft like PDMG can use higher res textures without OOM. 

 

As a X-Plane user, I saw all this happen. What I also saw happen was that virtually every complex aircraft was broken by 64 bit. The developers knew it was coming and updated accordingly and now everything works fine in 64 bit. However whether a lot of FSX developers  will want to upgrade their product to 64 bit is another matter. Some may well charge for the updates. 

 

Lastly X-Plane was written with 64 bit in mind, P3D being based on 7-8 year old code will not be such an easy prospect to change. It will get there, but I suspect it will not happen quickly.

I thought it would increase fps, so I guess the data processing has nothing to do with the bits? But still if it means better graphics and more addons working together then its totally worth it. 

X-Plane is most likely going to be the future flight sim for entertainment purposes, since Prepar3D is only licensed for commercial applications (and LM has not plans on changing that).

 

I've been using X-Plane 10 as my main flight sim for about six months now, and I'm really liking it. The only thing its missing is a PMDG aircraft.  ^_^

Not to mention, it never crashes.  B)

I read somewhere, I think it was here on the pmdg area that pmdg was to acquire a license for the 777 and maybe for the 737 for p3d very soon. Also their top goal is to make a simulator for airline training, but I guess thats a different story. So hopefully some pmdg will get released for p3d soon, which to me might make it worth it switching. I'm kind of thinking about either keep upgrading fsx with ftx and other stuff or wait a few months to see what pmdg announces.

[Guest]

 

 

777 and maybe for the 737 fpr p3d very soon.

 

Before the end of 2014 is what Robert hopes ... they are aiming as SP1 release for FSX and a product for XP10 and then P3D license.

 

 

 

also could be kind of unpredictable since they are military, imagine them making an ultra amazing sim in the next few years and then suddenly deciding to block it from public use for some reason,

 

You mean like Microsoft did with FSX ;)  ... nothing is certain, but LM have been doing P3D for 4+ years now and their defense contract runs out 2037 ... so I'd say they're in this for the long haul.

 

 

I thought it would increase fps

 

Depends on how it's coded ... more RAM opens doors that were previously closed ... the more you can cache data in RAM the less reads you do to other slower devices (like HDs/SSDs) so not having to slow down and wait for those devices to deliver the data the more jobs can get done in the same duration of time ... which can translate into better fps.  But there is nothing "inherent" about 64bit processing that is faster, it just allows code to leverage the larger address space for the purpose of increasing performance.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[G MIDY 101]

64bit means less performance in the longer term to be honest and is not something we need to strive for. At the moment FSX has a hard limit due to OOM's and they only ever occur when a system is being pushed too hard via a combination of intensive tweaks and scenery/aircraft. Just by using the FSX sliders to tweak is a far more efficient way of preventing an OOM than potentially breaking the simulator and many addons with a 64bit upgrade. 64bit to me just means addon makers have license to push systems harder which always results in less performance. For most people performance in FSX is okay but it could always be improved so I doubt it would be a good move to open it up like that.

[Cristi_Neagu 134]

 

 

64bit to me just means addon makers have license to push systems harder which always results in less performance

 

Placing a 32bit load on a system and getting a certain framerate, then using a 64bit heavier load on the same system and getting lower framerate doesn't mean 64bit is worse. What matters is how it moves with the same load. If i load my NGX with the scenery i use in a hypothetical 64bit FSX, will i get better performance? I think that will be the case. So in the long or short run, 64bit will improve performance. Just because you want to feed your PC more, that's your choice.

[mgh 89]

Placing a 32bit load on a system and getting a certain framerate, then using a 64bit heavier load on the same system and getting lower framerate doesn't mean 64bit is worse. What matters is how it moves with the same load. If i load my NGX with the scenery i use in a hypothetical 64bit FSX, will i get better performance? I think that will be the case. So in the long or short run, 64bit will improve performance. Just because you want to feed your PC more, that's your choice.

 

in what way is "getting lower framerate doesn't mean 64bit is worse" - does a lower frame rate make it better?.

[Cristi_Neagu 134]

in what way is "getting lower framerate doesn't mean 64bit is worse" - does a lower frame rate make it better?.

 

Well, if i load up the default glider in default scenery with all the sliders turned down and i get 45fps on 32bit, then i change to 32bit and i load a complex PMDG addon with addon scenery with sliders maxed and i get 30fps... Does that make the 64bit one worse? In truth, you can't say anything about the two situations because the test conditions changed. I am exaggerating the performance differences, but i'm only doing that to make my point clear. Lawrence said that:

 

 

 

64bit to me just means addon makers have license to push systems harder which always results in less performance

 

If you're pushing the system harder with more complex addons and textures and models, the performance remains the same, but the result has to suffer. That's what i meant by "getting lower framerate doesn't mean 64bit is worse".

 

Anyways, this is just splitting hairs. I don't think there's any point in carrying on this conversation, cause it's all just speculation and it will get really confusing really fast.  :P

[mgh 89]

Well, if i load up the default glider in default scenery with all the sliders turned down and i get 45fps on 32bit, then i change to 32bit and i load a complex PMDG addon with addon scenery with sliders maxed and i get 30fps... Does that make the 64bit one worse? In truth, you can't say anything about the two situations because the test conditions changed. I am exaggerating the performance differences, but i'm only doing that to make my point clear.

 

But was your point - other that different add-ons and different hardware will together have different performances?

[Cristi_Neagu 134]

But was your point - other that different add-ons and different hardware will together have different performances?

It is my opinion that, if there were a 64bit version of FSX along side the 32bit one, you would definitely see an improvement in framerates and smoothness with the 64bit version. Maybe not like 10fps or something, but enough to be noticed.

[voodoo101 21]

Your all arguing over a 64bit Flight Sim and your missing that there is already a 64bit Flight Sim, it's called X-Plane 10. What you should be doing is all contacting the addon makers for FSX and see if they have plans to make the addons available for X-Plane 10.

 

Anybody that has moved from FS9 to FSX has probably already re-purchased all there addons they had from FS9 to get the benefits of FSX. Now you need to ask yourself, if all your addons that you have for FSX was available for X-Plane 10, would you spend the money again to have a 64bit Flight Sim at your fingers now. Now I am only quoting from what I have read as I have never used it, but it is supposed to have better quality graphics, better frame rates and better flight dynamics.

 

Maybe P3D will get to be made in 64bit version, maybe you will have to buy all your addons again to be compatible. Maybe Microsoft Flight will make a new appearance, again you will have to buy all the addons to go with that. But maybe it is time to start supporting the only 64bit Flight Sim now. Once the following grows then the prospect of money will help get developer support.

[mgh 89]

It is my opinion that, if there were a 64bit version of FSX along side the 32bit one, you would definitely see an improvement in framerates and smoothness with the 64bit version. Maybe not like 10fps or something, but enough to be noticed.

 

Except there's most unlikely to be a 64bit version of FSX!

[Cristi_Neagu 134]

Except there's most unlikely to be a 64bit version of FSX!

True, unfortunately...

[avhpilot 156]

I have to say that a serious attempt in trying out the only 64 bits sim available at present, XP10 has not let me down sofar.

 

I purchased a GTX780 6GB GPU a few days ago and the benefits are immediately apparent whereas any change in FSX is hardly noticeable. I perhaps need to tweak my cfg file again and tweak Nvidea Inspector etc..

 

I get the feeling that XP10 is more rewarding when you spend some serious time en energy in it studying what can be done for free to  pimp up the scenery for free. I also like the concept that everyone can contribute and thus making it a sim for the people and by the people.

 

I do not like reading the EULA or the warnings on the LM site when clickin on buying a license for Prepar3d. It seems that i may spend that money if i want to 'learn' but it is forbidden to 'entertain' myself when doing so.

 

But still,  XP10 indeed needs a PMDG like quality add-on

 

[yidahoo 365]

I have to say that a serious attempt in trying out the only 64 bits sim available at present, XP10 has not let me down sofar.

 

I purchased a GTX780 6GB GPU a few days ago and the benefits are immediately apparent whereas any change in FSX is hardly noticeable. I perhaps need to tweak my cfg file again and tweak Nvidea Inspector etc..

 

I get the feeling that XP10 is more rewarding when you spend some serious time en energy in it studying what can be done for free to  pimp up the scenery for free. I also like the concept that everyone can contribute and thus making it a sim for the people and by the people.

 

I do not like reading the EULA or the warnings on the LM site when clickin on buying a license for Prepar3d. It seems that i may spend that money if i want to 'learn' but it is forbidden to 'entertain' myself when doing so.

 

But still,  XP10 indeed needs a PMDG like quality add-on

I agree with you nearly 100% with the exception of the PMDG. Try the Saab A340 from X-Aviation, granted not a jet but as close as you are going to get to PMDG in X-Plane with the bonus of silky smooth frame rates and a really cool interactive checklist