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Pilot25

Smoother Landings?

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Hi everyone.

 

I'm looking for some tips on ow to make smoother landings in the pmdg 777-200lr. I use the reference speeds and flaps from the fmc but as soon as I try to flare the aircraft climbs. Any tips will be helpful. 

 

Thanks!

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as soon as I try to flare the aircraft climbs. Any tips will be helpful. 
Well.... flare less?

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I

 


Any tips will be helpful.


 

Hi

 

Both the 200 and 300 require very little back pressure on the yoke for the flare. If you look at your descent rate at around 100ft alt it will probably be in the region of 500ft/min, You only need to reduce that to round 250ft/min. Do not try to grease the landing. This slight reduction in vs requires a very light control input only, otherwise you will certainly balloon up.

 

BTW, I like to address people by name, so please sign you future posts with your full name. It is a PMDG forum rule!

 

Rob

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Yes, it's pretty much just a couple of degrees I feel.

 

I recall Rob mentioned to me a while back that, a couple of degrees pitch up in the flare, is accurate to the real aircraft.

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Retarding at 10 feets radio alt. would help to a smoothly landing.

 

"Retard" means retarding the thrust.

 

So no, doing so at 10 feet is a bit too low. The OP is far more likely to float with that technique.

 

Allow the A/T to power back automatically, and just a slight flare, no more than 2 degrees up, and the landing will be fine.

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My method and one which was taught to me during my CPL training. Passing the threshold bring back your throttles to idle and during the flare transition your eyes to the end of the runway. As the guys previously said not a lot of back pressure is required for the flare. And maybe it's a simulator thing for people who haven't flown in the real world but you shouldn't really be concentrating on your instruments during the flare. Sure a good instrument scan is always essential with a good 800fpm descent rate during your approach. I see these tactics and I guarantee your landings will improve.

Good luck mate.

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My method and one which was taught to me during my CPL training. Passing the threshold bring back your throttles to idle

Threshold you say, so 50 feet. Depends on the aircraft type, but that would be too high for some. It's normally 20 feet for a T7 and most airliners I recall.

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Okay,for some of us;if the RA.of 10 feet is too low : then i can try with 20 RA.-feet.

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I should clarify on that. As you the pilot visually confirm crossing over the piano keys pull your levers to idle. This method works for me every time.

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Thanks Martin-w for your tip : if you  can command this technigue in practice;that is very good,but many pilots has fear or respectively no time to confirm this 2-degree on the

PFD.   best regards.

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Okay thanks to all of you! 

 

I will certainly take your tips into consideration when I do my next landing. 

 

-Jason

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Thanks Martin-w for your tip : if you can command this technigue in practice;that is very good,but many pilots has fear or respectively no time to confirm this 2-degree on the

PFD. best regards.

It's not something you measure, no need to fixate on the PFD. Just a slight back pressure is all that's required.

 

Just nudge the nose up a fraction.

Okay,for some of us;if the RA.of 10 feet is too low : then i can try with 20 RA.-feet.

I take it you are landing with autothust off then?

 

If you try it with autothrust on (how most 777 pilots land) You will see that the A/T throtles back at 20 feet automatically.

 

Boeing know best, so I would say do the same.

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Everyone has a different method. Heres how I learn to land at the beginning.

 

The flare height ranges from 20-40ft depends on weight, or you can fixed the flare height at let say 30ft but change the rate of flare due to weight difference to achieve the same result. If you wanna practice how to land the airplane, I reckon the best thing to do is to learn from the AP first, than once you gain more experience you will be able to fine tune it.

 

Perform an Autoland in NIL wind condition. From 1000ft use a mouse cursor to pin point your runway aiming point, which is almost always the 2nd set of rwy markings from the rwy threshold (~1000ft from the threshold), so with FAA marking that will be the around touch down zone marking, and in ICAO marking, the aim point would be the one just before the touch down zone marking, or if unsure, it should just be abeam where the PAPI is.

 

The idea of keeping a constant aiming point is, if you don't flare at all, you should be able to crash into it.

 

When the AP flare during an autoland, keep the cursor at the same place on your screen and observe how the aim point changes from the 2nd set of the marking to between 3rd and the 4th markings from the rwy threshold. And also the rate of pitch change the AP make for the flare.

 

Now just try to replicate the same thing manually with the A/T first, if successful your touch down point will always be within 1000-2000ft from the threshold with an adequate rate of descend. Remember, once the Thrust goes to idle at 20ft and the airspeed begins to decrease you will need to pull back slightly to hold the pitch attitude constant in order to reach your new aim point.

 

However, don't try to make a soft touch down by keep pulling the nose up, with the 773 it's very easy to get a tail strike.

 

Once you can achieve a safe landing consistently, try to reduce the visbility down to CAT I minima which is 550M. You will find that you can still be able to judge your flare and touch down point quite accurately while not being able to see very far down the rwy. Once you become more comfortable, you may further reduce it down to CATII minima which is 350M and have a go.

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Many Thanks all of You for all the technical and experimented and experienced tips regarding smoother landing,happy and perfect landings..

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The flare height ranges from 20-40ft depends on weight, or you can fixed the flare height at let say 30ft but change the rate of flare due to weight difference to achieve the same result.

That would make sense, given that extra weight results in extra inertia.

 

A big airliner like the 777 would usually be landing at a pretty standard weight though most of the time. And I note that the autoland pays no attention to weight when flaring, same height for thrust reduction and same height for flare, every time. So I'm not sure the minor change in mass and inertia has a significant effect in regard to the 777.

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I recommend you to use VREF30 + 5 knot (except with heavy gust). The 5 knot additive is bled off during the flare; I mean, VREF30+5 during approach to be at VREF30+0 at touchdown. Initiate the flare when the main gear is about 20 feet above the runway, reducing thrust to idle and increasing the pitch about 2-3 degrees. And do not trim during the flare, because increasing the possibility of a tail strike.

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