Sign in to follow this  
W2DR

Here I sit...

Recommended Posts

...new CPU, new motherboard, new memory sticks...and the same old hardware-bound add-ons. Can't install much of anything. Comcast's DNS servers are down and there is no way to reach Flight1 (or almost anywhere else for that matter). But the default Cessna flies really well...Sometimes all this anti-piracy stuff is just a big pain. Thanks for listening. I feel better now.Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I know what you mean. The hardware-bound software thing is quite ridiculous, and makes it difficult for the end-user, the customer, when upgrading hardware.James

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>Sometimes all this anti-piracy stuff is just a big painDougI've been banging on about this for yonks. I'm sorry to hear that you have this problem but at the same time I am comforted to know that there are others who feel exactly the same way as I do.The trouble is the whole thing is quite ridiculous really. In the "early" days before I decided I would no longer buy software which required coding to my hard disk I bought the Flight 1 Cessna 152. As FS2004 is on a PC which is not connected to the Internet I went through the rigmarole of getting a special key so that I could use the software. Eventually the time came when I had to do a reinstall and I waited nearly two days to get a replacement "special" key. In the meantime I read that if you had the CD version then you didn't need to get a key from Flight 1 as it was installed automatically. So I bought the CD and installed it exactly as I had read.So .... download the software and be forced to get a key from the publisher or buy the CD version and not have to do that. Where is the anti-piracy logic in this? I am open to all sensible and logically bullet-proof explanations :-lolDavid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And you know the ironic thing?, anti-piracy measures normally only cause problems for legitimate buyers, the pirates have no trouble re-installing their software.Dan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm getting my new rig in a couple of days and everything is new (except the monitor). I haven't reflected on this issue before since I've only done incremental updates to my computer. But does anyone know which of the more widespread aircraft (FSD, Flight1 etc) add-ons are likely to cause me some headaches? I figured if I have this information first hand I won't have to bang my head agains the wall that much!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ah, ye olde argument that noone should use protection from piracy because it doesn't help anyway?Tell ye what, if those products weren't protected piracy would be a hundred times worse than it's now and all those companies would be driven out of business quickly because they'd have no income left at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I don't have any problem at all with software devs trying to protect their work from piracy, I completely disagree with what you just said Jeroen. Sorry, but I really believe even if payware devs used almost no protection at all other than perhaps direct mailing the installer to persons after recieving payment, sales dollars would be almost the same as they are now. Even if I could get free copies of the planes I want (and I do know where to go to do so), I choose not to becuase I want to support the devs. I suspect that that is true of most of us (I assume it's true of you, why would you assume otherwise of me?). The people who are pirating the stuff simply wouldn't ever fork over the dough (in most cases) anyway and so don't really represent lost dollars for the devs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've found that most newer protection systems are fully automatic ie. you can reset the counter and get a new key for your system after a reinstall or upgrade by entering enough personal info to confirm who you are. I think Flight1 has pretty much mastered this. They even offer a "Transfer License" option now, in case your FS PC isn't connected to the Internet.Those who don't have this system in place have received a lot of manual requests from me lately as I've upgraded and then had a number of issues forcing me to reinstall several times :-lol Since they're manual it can take 24h or more to get up and running.Of course if the Internet connection is down you're left with 100's of $'s worth of unusable addons. Same if one of the major publishers deicdes to shut their doors. Some publishers have even been known to shut down people's licenses just because they don't like the customer or because he has, in their opinion, reinstalled too many times. In other words, you don't really buy a lifetime license to use the software like CD's (CD's do degrade but then you can make backups on CD-R), only a temporary one.Does it stop piracy?Those who know where to find pirated copies also know where to find the cracks and codes to use them. The kind of piracy that it *does* stop is the casual kind - for example, I can't easily give any of my FS addons to a friend to try out, because they're tied to my computer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Jimmi says, pirated versions which don't have these crippling features, along with cracks and codes are readily available to those who want them, but me, along with the majority here buy them, not because we HAVE to buy them, but because we want to buy them and like to support the good work some of these dev's provide.I think one of the better forms of piracy protection is the closed support forum as per Level D sims 767, this is a complex addon, and if you own it, legitimatly or not, you will need the support forum sooner or later, and by having it closed to non-purchasers could certainly help to combat piracy.Dan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming your internet connection is active you shouldn't have a problem with any of them. At least not the ones that automatically validate things using the internet. I've done this a jillion times with no problems at all. I personally really like the Flight1 system - but not when my internet connection isn't working :-). Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>Does it stop piracy?>Those who know where to find pirated copies also know where to>find the cracks and codes to use them. The kind of piracy that>it *does* stop is the casual kind - for example, I can't>easily give any of my FS addons to a friend to try out,>because they're tied to my computer.correct. And as that's the vast majority it does stop enough to make it worth the effort.All the people making "backup copies" and giving those to friends "for safekeeping" now will have to give that friend their creditcard number as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

heh, I don't know about you, but I can count the number of friends I know who are seriously interested in FS to any degree at all on one hand. In fact, I can count them on no hands since the number is zero. I sincerely doubt any payware developers would lose much to people passing flightsim files around to their friends. Again, I have no problem at all with the security measures most devs take and I'm happy to jump through those hoops most of the time if its an add-on I really want. I just don't think that these sorts of "hardcore" hobby markets really lose big sales dollars to piracy. It reminds me of a game called Strat-O-Matic baseball. For anyone not familiar with it, it's an incredibly deep stat based baseball sim. It appeals to a very dedicated and very tiny market and yet they use this ridiculous security procedure that truly makes it difficult to really use the program. It's almost funny really. A friend of mine who is a big fan of the game recently had to go through a huge deal by phone with them becuase he'd lost a key for a product he'd purchased from them as a gift for his brother who is also a fan. "So let me get this straight - you bought a team pack for a game you don't actually own yourself???" As though there's this huge black market for a product of such limited appeal...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm about to move to a new computer system for gaming (got a nice machine from Monarch - Athlon64 3200 with all the trimmings)...so I will see how much wailing and knashing of teeth I experience.The first thing I plan on doing after installing XP on the new machine is to use the File and Settings Transfer application to move my account and all info from the old machine to the new machine. I wonder if that will help at all. Probably not for those packages which use a machine ID as part of their protection.As a developer both professionally and as one of my hobbies, I fully understand the need for protection.Without protection, the software becomes Donationware since only those who a) don't know how to get it for free or 2) have a tiny bit of moral backbone, will pay for it.And as a donationware developer, I can say that business model doesn't bring in much greenback! ;-) Which is okay for me but not for someone who is trying to make a living off of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The majority of anti-piracy measures, which are utilized today on most software, are no more analogous to the determined end user than a deadbolt lock is to a determined thief.A lock in its basic form is there simply to keep an honest person honest. One who is determined to find a way in or a way around paying will do so.Piracy is here to stay and there will always be those who will look to steal others wares, but most who do it do so not to obtain the end product, they do so for the satisfaction of beating the latest and greatest security measure. All we can do as a group is continue to report theses sites and services which host pirated copies of files we tend to buy, continue to support these vendors with our money buy purchasing legitimate copies of products they create even though we can find them for free, if we know where to look.For if we don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>Piracy is here to stay and there will always be those who will>look to steal others wares, but most who do it do so not to>obtain the end product, they do so for the satisfaction of>beating the latest and greatest security measure. I would say that the crackers are the ones who may be doing it for the satisfaction. Pirates, OTOH, are the ones who are stealing so they don't have to pay for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"A lock in its basic form is there simply to keep an honest person honest. One who is determined to find a way in or a way around paying will do so."It seems to me that a lock is there to keep everybody who has no key out. The fact that some people will find a way around that doesn't really change this. A lock is irrelevant to an honest person. I could walk by a house with the doors hanging wide open and I wouldn't be even slightly tempted to walk in and steal stuff. I think the question that really isn't ever answered in these debates is "how many of the people who go to the trouble of finding and installing pirated software are actually potential customers." It just seems to me that the vast majority of people stealing software (including music) simply wouldn't spend the money to buy the product even if they couldn't get it free. We can argue about the ethics of someone using software for free that someone else has had to pay for but that's a seperate issue really. The issue that is fundamental to the dev is "am I losing actual sales to piracy?" If I walk in to a shop and pocket a CD and walk out without paying, I've not only acquired that product for myself for free, but I've removed the opportunity of the shop to sell that item to someone else. That is theft. If I download a piece of software and use it for free, that may be unethical but unless there was some chance I'd have purchased the software otherwise is it really theft? I mean, there is no way in the world that I'm ever going to buy myself a Ferrari, but if someone were to park one in my driveway with the keys in the ignition, it wouldn't be too many days before I'd consider taking it for a spin. :) Again, it might not be ethical, but Ferrari certainly hasn't lost a sale becuase theres no way I'd be buying anyway...I don't want to open up a whole can of worms here and I certainly don't mean to advocate for piracy. I just have some doubts about alot of the claims made by (for instance) the music industry suggesting that all their problems are related to music sharing. I would suggest that while piracy might account for some small percentage of any losses the industry has seen over the past few years, there might also be other explanations that come in to play but which are never mentioned by the industry (such as the possibility that the industry is charging too much for a product that is often of questionable quality - when was the last time you bought a CD that had more than 2 or 3 really good tracks?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wholeheartedly agree that quality has a lot to do with the driving force behind sustained sales and some developers use the piracy issue to justify higher prices while not turning out higher quality.The potential customer issue is an argument unto itself and I agree, I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going thru the reinstall routine with my new system. So far I've been lucky, but I've yet to try reinstalling the Aerosoft Katana... that one has been a nightmare in the past. This reinstalling of protected software is becoming more streamlined for most of the popular add-on developers. Nice that they're making it a bit easier on their paying customers.Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the end of the day, for whom does anti-piracy give a sense of security? The developer or the end user? Undoubtedly it gives the developer a sense of security, albeit a FALSE sense of security.Case in point. I have a deadbolt on my back door, along with a lock on the doorhandle. I check it every night before I go to bed and my family sleeps soundly. Unfortunately, right next to that deadbolt and the door handle lock is a pane of glass that can be easily smashed an arm reached in and the deadbolt and the handle lock turned all in about 5 seconds. I know this and the burglars know this, which is why I have a Glock 19G with three clips of Corbon hollow points upstairs in the bedroom! :-lol Software developers don't have a Glock 19C with which to back up their software security features, just the perverbial deadbolt next to a glass pane. The fact is that Microsoft spent MILLIONS and years of research on authenticaion and long key strings for Windows XP hopefully assuring that pirated copies of Windows XP could not be used and the end user is limited to one unique copy of XP per computer. This was as useful as a submarine with a screen door because an XP Keygen and an activation crack will ensure that any illegal copy of Windows can be used and loaded at will. Instantly XP's security has been rendered flacid.So, what if developers gave up on security because it is almost always ineffective? Well the average user would now be able to utilize illegal software whereas only the power user familiar with the existance of Warez sites, keygens and cracks could access them at this point. Instead of 5,000,000 people using illegal copies there would be 10,000,000. In economies of scale, one understands that loss will happen and one can figure in the loss of sale due to cracks and hacks. Take away security and you might as well give copies away for free.Software piracy and hacking are facts of life. Like crime and prostitution you can survail, punish, deter, or penalize and at the end of the day there are still criminals and there are prostitutes. One can only hope to keep their numbers under control and make it harder of those who are looking to go that route, but one understands that they will never be irradicated.I point you to any high crime neighborhood. You find that the honest folks are locked behind window bars and heavy iron doors while the criminals roam free in the streets. Much is the same with software security where you and I jump through hoops to install software on our systems while the hackers enjoy the freedom to do as they wish.It is a sadly bass ackwards society that we live in but alas we stupid humans accept it as the status quo. While software piracy and anti-piracy don't have a bearing on society as a whole, its intrinsic microchams scales up nicely. At the end, it is a sad testiment to who and what we all have become.*end of rant*Regards,Mike T.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe if the penalty for developing a crack around copy protection were the equivalent of armed robbery, and the penalty for possession is the same as possessing stolen goods, this will stop.As long as there is demand, someone will supply.In the future when our brains are directly wired into the Intraweb, then we can see something like Black Ice from Neuromancer where if you try to crack something your brain gets cooked like Jiffy Pop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Doug!I had this image that at least some (like PMDG used to) has your licence firmly connected to your hardware and that moving to a new could be quite cumbersome. Was that Captainsim?Anyway, it's off installing tomorrow and then "ghosting" the whole enchillada!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comparing software piracy and armed robbery might be a bit extreme but I see where you are coming from.The whole supply and demand theory has been tested and tested again with, not surprisingly the same results. One only has to look at each and every time a government makes something illegal there is always a demand side be it liquor or drugs to cigarettes or pornography. It seems that Software piracy is more a moral issue than a criminal issue such as the case of visiting a speak easy in the 1920

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also am a Comcast sufferer, but no more.Visit broadbandreports.com. In the COMCAST HSI forum, there are ways to get around the DNS problem. There are several other helpful threads about checking your cable modem and viewing Comcast's Network Health.Hope this helps.Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if they dont know about the piracy, they cant be bothered. They arent loosing income. There are alot more honest people than those people with their own messed up life and mad at the world. We all know that payware aircraft are out there cracked and for free some where. They get a good size profit one way or another though. :) Now if their sales reduced by a large sum due to piracy, thats one thing. But many many more people continue to purchase the add-ons and they get their money. Not supporting piracy, but dont understand why people flip out over 3D Models made in GMAX. Yes, much time is spent, and if they want money for it, they should get it. But then again, all this anti-piracy stuff doesnt help us much and doesnt stop pirates. They are determined and crack the planes one way or another.I dont support piracy a bit, but in the long run, it hurts the "true" owners more than pirates. Ahh well.. who knows.. Just hope i dont get my head bit off in here for saying that. Just seems like alot of trouble is caused for the true owners of the products and doesnt stop piracy much..Any ways, there are 2 sides to this i guess.. And im on the stop piracy side, but seems like our method now doesnt stop it, just delays it and causes problems for the people who have purchased it.:-wave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this