The RW charts for EGLL can be found at http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=94&Itemid=143.html

The TA for EGLL is 6000'. The TL depends on the QNH. Therefore it isn't shown on the charts.

 

RW charts for WSSS, that show the TA, can be found at http://www.caas.gov.sg/caasWeb2010/export/sites/caas/en/Regulations/Aeronautical_Information/AIP/aerodrome/ad_wsss.html

 

RW charts for YSSY can be found at http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/dap/AeroProcChartsTOC.htm#S

Thanks Marc - good to go!

 

 

Does setting TRANS LVL (CDU LK1) do anything besides trigger the PFD reminder?

 

No (though the CDU will show "FLxxx" for any altitude above the setting).

 

 

 

Is TA for departure and TL for arrivals?

 

Somewhat...

 

Think about it:

Transition ALTITUDE means it's the altitude at which you transition to the flight levels. You have to be in the "altitudes" in order to be transitioning to the FLs, which means you're climbing (departing).

 

Transition LEVEL means it's the flight level at which you transition to the altitudes. You have to be in the "levels" in order to be transitioning to the altitudes, which means you're descending (arriving).

Thanks Kyle that makes it simple. Is that why TA is set on the Climb page and TL set on the Descent page?

Thanks Kyle that makes it simple. Is that why TA is set on the Climb page and TL set on the Descent page?

Bingo - and worry not. I finally figured it all out this year. Prior to that, I just went with it and trusted what people were saying. Haha.

You should never change until actually transitioning through. Reason being you could be told by atc to level off while descending, before you pass the transition level, and you may not remember to set the altimeter back to standard.

That's why I need the PFD warning, can't trust my memory (and shouldn't).

You should never change until actually transitioning through. Reason being you could be told by atc to level off while descending, before you pass the transition level, and you may not remember to set the altimeter back to standard.

 

The likelihood of this, as mentioned on the last page is very slim. Plus, given the strata of ARTCCs, you're not likely to get a descent instruction from higher flight levels down through TL. The instruction to get you below TL is likely to come from about FL230 to FL240, and that's even slimmer of a chance of a later altitude correction.

 

A controller wouldn't usually issue a descent to a lower altitude and then recall it and issue a higher altitude. Not only is it poor form, it somewhat means he or she wasn't looking ahead. While this does happen from time to time, I'd argue that waiting on the TL change until the actual TL on the assumption someone is going to make a mistake is a bit of overkill.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say it never happens...I'm just trying to get people thinking, as always.

 

...moreover, one should never use 'never' in terms of providing aviation guidance. I gave plenty of reasons to set local/standard pressure in advance of the crossing. To say 'never' is to remove all logic from the art and subscribe to blind followership.

 

 

 

(All of the above related to FAA airspace, of course).

In some of the training videos I've seen it seems to be a per airline SOP whether or not STD is selected when cleared to a flight level. Some immediately set it when cleared and some wait until actually crossing the TA. Confusing to say the least.

 

As far as the descent, I remember as an ATC approach controller that when  we made contact with an aircraft  - Runway , wind and altimeter were always given on initial contact. When I give the altimeter then that is the pilots que to set it - regardless. All aircraft under my control need to be on the same altimeter that way there is no BS or confusion. 

The likelihood of this, as mentioned on the last page is very slim. Plus, given the strata of ARTCCs, you're not likely to get a descent instruction from higher flight levels down through TL. The instruction to get you below TL is likely to come from about FL230 to FL240, and that's even slimmer of a chance of a later altitude correction.

 

A controller wouldn't usually issue a descent to a lower altitude and then recall it and issue a higher altitude. Not only is it poor form, it somewhat means he or she wasn't looking ahead. While this does happen from time to time, I'd argue that waiting on the TL change until the actual TL on the assumption someone is going to make a mistake is a bit of overkill.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say it never happens...I'm just trying to get people thinking, as always.

 

...moreover, one should never use 'never' in terms of providing aviation guidance. I gave plenty of reasons to set local/standard pressure in advance of the crossing. To say 'never' is to remove all logic from the art and subscribe to blind followership.

 

 

 

(All of the above related to FAA airspace, of course).

 

Not very slim, happens often in busy terminal airspace. Sometimes on climb out, a clearance to above the transition level is changed to a lower altitude for crossing traffic, it happens more in America because the transition level is so high compared to Europe, 18000 versus 5000 or 6000

 

On another note, my winds on the navigation display do not show up until my airplane is airborne, they used to show when gaining speed on takeoff. Was that changed with the new service pack?

 

 

As far as the descent, I remember as an ATC approach controller that when  we made contact with an aircraft  - Runway , wind and altimeter were always given on initial contact. When I give the altimeter then that is the pilots que to set it - regardless. All aircraft under my control need to be on the same altimeter that way there is no BS or confusion. 

 

Exactly - that's the angle I'm approaching all of this from, really. Where were you a controller?

 

 

 

Not very slim, happens often in busy terminal airspace. Sometimes on climb out, a clearance to above the transition level is changed to a lower altitude for crossing traffic, it happens more in America because the transition level is so high compared to Europe, 18000 versus 5000 or 6000

 

It does happen a bunch in terminal airspace, but that's usually a lot lower in the altitude strata. Transition level/altitude is very rarely controlled by terminal controllers (in the United States), and above about 10-14, I'd say it's pretty rare...and becoming increasingly rare with all of the OPCs and OPDs coming online (climb via / descend via SIDs/STARs).

 

Potomac Approach caps out at FL230, but only in certain sectors, and their higher strata aren't too congested. Heck, even N90 (NY TRACON) is pretty open up near the FLs. What US facility are you flying in and out of where you see this other than occasionally?

Chicago, was cleared to fl230 then changed to 17000 a minute later.

 

Don't mean to threadjack but the previous 77L versions had the wind displayed on the navigation display when gaining speed on the runway, now I don't get it until after taking off.

 

 

Chicago, was cleared to fl230 then changed to 17000 a minute later.

 

Odd...C90 (Chicago TRACON) only owns up to 15 at its highest. It's entirely possible that they're allowed to clear aircraft higher per LOA, but it sounds more like the controller tried to hand off "through" one of the positions to give you fewer freq changes and then it got rejected. I'd consider that an exception to the rule, though (most LOA stuff is, honestly).

 

 

 

Don't mean to threadjack but the previous 77L versions had the wind displayed on the navigation display when gaining speed on the runway, now I don't get it until after taking off.

 

Nothing changed for it between the RTM and the SPs. Are you sure you don't have any weather programs set to suppress wind on the ground? I think ASN has this option. Worth checking, because I definitely remember glancing at the ND during the takeoff roll to get a feeling for why I was having to correct so much on the takeoff roll.

In some of the training videos I've seen it seems to be a per airline SOP whether or not STD is selected when cleared to a flight level. Some immediately set it when cleared and some wait until actually crossing the TA. Confusing to say the least.

 

As far as the descent, I remember as an ATC approach controller that when  we made contact with an aircraft  - Runway , wind and altimeter were always given on initial contact. When I give the altimeter then that is the pilots que to set it - regardless. All aircraft under my control need to be on the same altimeter that way there is no BS or confusion.

 

It is not confusing and is the pilots responsibility to set the altimeter according company SOPs......not according a controllers liking!

That does not mean I wouod not switch if asked to do so by the controller.....but he never does ask you to do this.

 

Our Airlines SOPs have change to standard when PASSING through the TA.

Our Airline SOPs have change to QNH once CLEARED to an altitude.

I think the reason for this is that you are on the controllers QNH as long as possible while and as early as possible when descending.

 

But other airlines might do that differently and as I stated before, the BOEING SOPs allways change upon PASSING the TL/TA.

Chicago, was cleared to fl230 then changed to 17000 a minute later.

 

Reclearance are common......but not when having been cleared from below TA to above or from above TL to below it.

Seems ATC tries to avoid that as much as possible because they know it can cause false level offs with wrong altimeter settings.

 

I have gotten such a reclearance ONCE in over 15 years as far as I remember!

Odd...C90 (Chicago TRACON) only owns up to 15 at its highest. It's entirely possible that they're allowed to clear aircraft higher per LOA, but it sounds more like the controller tried to hand off "through" one of the positions to give you fewer freq changes and then it got rejected. I'd consider that an exception to the rule, though (most LOA stuff is, honestly).

 

 

 

 

Nothing changed for it between the RTM and the SPs. Are you sure you don't have any weather programs set to suppress wind on the ground? I think ASN has this option. Worth checking, because I definitely remember glancing at the ND during the takeoff roll to get a feeling for why I was having to correct so much on the takeoff roll.

 

I do have ASN, cannot find any wind suppression option to change. Shift Z shows the winds as active, but only when I take off does the ND show the winds.