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Guest BeaverDriver

Reference Speeds?

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Has anyone found the V-Speeds table for this aircraft? I've looked through all my manuals and can't find them.

 

Thanks.

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I don't see them either with the included documents. I can get something together in the next few days if no one else has them readily available.

 

I do have an old FlightSafety checklist on the SII handy. I will get it scanned tomorrow and try to put something together. This checklist does not have emergency procedures, but I can come up with that also in a little bit of time.

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Has anyone found the V-Speeds table for this aircraft? I've looked through all my manuals and can't find them.

 

Thanks.

Carenado only included about 3 speeds in the Limations. I think I have them, what would you like to know?

 

Ray

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That's what I was afraid of. How do you fly a jet without at least baseline V-Speeds (V1, Vr, V2)?? You're completely guessing otherwise. In a Citation they may not vary that much by conditions, but they will by weight.

 

@Ray, thanks, but I really need the above mentioned speeds. Without it, you are flying by feel, not by the numbers. That works fine for the most part in a light plane, but not a jet.

 

@Craig - thanks, don't worry about it for my sake. I just did a flight that told me all I needed to know about this airplane. Man, burnt again. Oh well.

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I might do it anyway for the community's sake as I did for the Phenom.

 

I don't know why we are so surprised each time Carenado releases a jet at this point. They are not known for systems modeling or performance accuracy.

 

Overall I am OK with the purchase. I am yet to fly a flight by the numbers to see what oddities arise, but will probably do that tomorrow.

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I just did a flight that told me all I needed to know about this airplane. Man, burnt again. Oh well.

 

Glenn, I thought your early impressions were favorable.  Sorry to hear that this may be another disappointment for you.

 

Scott

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That's what I was afraid of. How do you fly a jet without at least baseline V-Speeds (V1, Vr, V2)?? You're completely guessing otherwise. In a Citation they may not vary that much by conditions, but they will by weight.

 

@Ray, thanks, but I really need the above mentioned speeds. Without it, you are flying by feel, not by the numbers. That works fine for the most part in a light plane, but not a jet.

 

@Craig - thanks, don't worry about it for my sake. I just did a flight that told me all I needed to know about this airplane. Man, burnt again. Oh well.

OK guys, check your PM.

 

Ray

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I believe he is looking for the tabulated data regarding weight and temperature that give reference speeds for takeoff and landing. Do you have that data handy?

 

You must have edited while I was posting.....

 

Still some specific takeoff data missing.

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I believe he is looking for the tabulated data regarding weight and temperature that give reference speeds for takeoff and landing. Do you have that data handy?

 

You must have edited while I was posting.....

 

Still some specific takeoff data missing.

Like I told you, the Performance Section of the S550 AFM is 404 pages. There is not a simple table or chart anywhere that I can find. Glenn has everything that I sent you.

 

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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They are reference tables in the checklist. I will get the data digitized tomorrow.

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They are reference tables in the checklist. I will get the data digitized tomorrow.

Whose checklist? What reference tables. I have digital data I just don't know what you are referring to.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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Pilot's checklist. All jets that I have operated have tabulated in this checklist for quick reference in determining power settings and airspeeds based on flap settings, weight, altitude and temperature.

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Pilot's checklist. All jets that I have operated have tabulated in this checklist for quick reference in determining power settings and airspeeds based on flap settings, weight, altitude and temperature.

I agree if it is a modern jet. All the 525 series and the 510 Mustang have the S & D and the FPG readily available for free download from Cessna but not for the 1980s and 1990s models. The two tables that I posted cover just about everything for day to day V1 VR V2 and Vref and Vapp speeds for the S550. That is about all I think we are going to find.

 

BTW. This is a lot more than the Eaglesoftdg flight manual had for ref speeds. The Flight1 Mustang has all of the info because it is up to date and Cessna provides the info for free.

 

When I attended the Flight Safety CE-500 Type Rating class they gave us everything you could imagine and in color, printed and digital. Of course, you pay dearly for that kind of service.

 

It is probaly asking a little much to expect much more than we are seeing for a $45 flight sim version of a 1984 Citation S/II.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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Sorry ray. I'm not trying to bust your balls, but if you are typed you should know about the tabulated data I am referencing. In the data you posted above, nowhere could I find specific takeoff performance data. I should note that I am on my iPad so maybe it is not showing everything you posted above.

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Cessna provides the data tables in the performance area of the aircraft's documentation. That's how they do it for all of their jets. Ray didn't post the performance area, as it's over 400 pages in size. Would seriously take a looong time to post that in this thread. :)

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This will be too much information for some, and I understand that. For those of the community who would like the numbers for takeoff as well, they are in this simple checklist from FlightSafety. If anyone is interested in the full checklist that would include emergency procedures in the event of systems failure, let me know and I can make that happen as well.

 

http://www.filedropper.com/citationsiinormalchecklist

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Cessna provides the data tables in the performance area of the aircraft's documentation. That's how they do it for all of their jets. Ray didn't post the performance area, as it's over 400 pages in size. Would seriously take a looong time to post that in this thread. :)

No one needs 400 pages of data to fly anything. I thought Beaver was looking for the tables that provide power settings and V1,Vr and V2.

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This will be too much information for some, and I understand that. For those of the community who would like the numbers for takeoff as well, they are in this simple checklist from FlightSafety. If anyone is interested in the full checklist that would include emergency procedures in the event of systems failure, let me know and I can make that happen as well.

 

http://www.filedropper.com/citationsiinormalchecklist

Thank you very much!!!

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lubik, Malwarebytes blocks your signature image because the website is classified as malicious.

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Gentlemen - my sincere apologies for losing track of this thread. Thank you very much for the info provided - it's much appreciated. I'm afraid I got on to other things, like trying to get the airplane to altitude (just isn't going to happen) and forgot about things like rotation speeds and whatnot.

 

Yes, it is the speeds such as V1, Vr, V2, Vref for the various environmental factors I was looking for. Someone suggested that this might be expecting too much for a $45 model, but I disagree completely. We got them for the XP Lear, the Turbine Duke, PMDG series (all - and they aren't that much more expensive than this model now), the F1 Mustang (only $4 more than this one), and numerous other aircraft. Even just including some samples for zero fuel weight, half full and at gross would be better than nothing (from Carenado). It really bugs me that we, the paying customer, seem to have to fix and provide data for ourselves while Carenado sits back and collects the money for it. Something wrong with that picture.

 

@Scott - yeah, I thought it was going to be really good. They did up the bar on some things like lighting and sounds, and takeoff performance seemed right on the money. However, once I got past the initial "turn & burn" stage and started flying it like it was being put into service, the flaws very quickly became all too evident. It's to the point where I have hangared it now and we'll see how the SP goes. I'm not terribly optimistic because without a rework of the FDE's, this airplane just ain't gonna make it I'm afraid. Sad. The Citation is a good airplane IRL and fit my ops perfectly. I should have known, but after the Saratoga and PC 12, I thought maybe they had picked up their socks. It was after that that I found one of the fellows (or maybe more than one) provided many of the fixes for the PC12, not Carenado. Someone argued I was undervaluing this product by saying it should cost $15, not $45. Well, when the customer does much of the final beta testing and develops the fixes for these aircraft, I stand by my original value. Sadly.

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Gentlemen - my sincere apologies for losing track of this thread. Thank you very much for the info provided - it's much appreciated. I'm afraid I got on to other things, like trying to get the airplane to altitude (just isn't going to happen) and forgot about things like rotation speeds and whatnot.

 

Yes, it is the speeds such as V1, Vr, V2, Vref for the various environmental factors I was looking for. Someone suggested that this might be expecting too much for a $45 model, but I disagree completely. We got them for the XP Lear, the Turbine Duke, PMDG series (all - and they aren't that much more expensive than this model now), the F1 Mustang (only $4 more than this one), and numerous other aircraft. Even just including some samples for zero fuel weight, half full and at gross would be better than nothing (from Carenado). It really bugs me that we, the paying customer, seem to have to fix and provide data for ourselves while Carenado sits back and collects the money for it. Something wrong with that picture.

 

@Scott - yeah, I thought it was going to be really good. They did up the bar on some things like lighting and sounds, and takeoff performance seemed right on the money. However, once I got past the initial "turn & burn" stage and started flying it like it was being put into service, the flaws very quickly became all too evident. It's to the point where I have hangared it now and we'll see how the SP goes. I'm not terribly optimistic because without a rework of the FDE's, this airplane just ain't gonna make it I'm afraid. Sad. The Citation is a good airplane IRL and fit my ops perfectly. I should have known, but after the Saratoga and PC 12, I thought maybe they had picked up their socks. It was after that that I found one of the fellows (or maybe more than one) provided many of the fixes for the PC12, not Carenado. Someone argued I was undervaluing this product by saying it should cost $15, not $45. Well, when the customer does much of the final beta testing and develops the fixes for these aircraft, I stand by my original value. Sadly.

Glenn,

 

Most of the early straight wings Citations were always kinda dogs when climbing into the higher altitudes. Most folks used a series of step climbs. Usually it was ATC that was restricting the unlimited climbs anyway. The Citations were just so slow that they were slowing down the Learjets closing in on them and at the time there were more Lears than Citations (at least more climbing high)

 

The follow on from this one was the Bravo and it started to climb a bit better due to better engines.

 

Once we get this one more or less on par I would like to see if we can get someone's attention and try to come up with the SIJET Super II edition. It is this S550 with some really nice new FJ44 Williams engines and it totally cures the weak climbs and also boosts the all the speeds significantly.

 

• Climb direct to 43,000 at gross weight in less than 25 minutes

• Cruise speed as much as 50 knots faster

• Fly 400 miles farther at maximum cruise power

• Fly 600 miles farther at economy cruise power

• Climb 40 percent better at sea level with both engines

• Reduce fuel burn and carbon emissions by more than 25 percent

 

They have switched thirteen S550s to the FJ44 engines so far and #14 is in the shop being upgraded now. Check is out at

 

http://www.sijet.com/fj44-sierra-super

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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lubik, Malwarebytes blocks your signature image because the website is classified as malicious.

I use Malwarebytes and have no problems with his signature.

 

Best regards,

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I get:

 

Malicious Website Blocked

pic.yupoo.com

122.225.29.168

55248

Outbound

 

I have the paid version of Malwarebytes with current database.

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